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Mr. Peter Ainsworth: I am grateful to the Minister for giving way, as I appreciate that time is short. However, there is a difference between value for money in terms of the quality of experience for the people who spend £20 to visit the dome, and value for money in terms of an investment of £400 million of lottery players' money.
We have been talking about the latter problem this evening: if the Minister did not understand that, she has missed the entire point of the debate.
Janet Anderson: I remind the hon. Gentleman that it was the Conservative party that decided to go ahead with the dome project in the first place. The dome was a Tory idea. Of course there have been teething troubles: no such attraction ever avoids them, as the right hon. Member for Henley (Mr. Heseltine) explained. The company is seeing what can be done about better visitor management flow and signage. There is a dome-ometer to warn people of waiting times at the zones, and so on.
Some Opposition Members complained about queues, but they cannot have it both ways. Perhaps the existence of queues means that people want to visit the dome.
Reference has been made to Jennie Page. Opposition Members will know that her employment was a matter for the company, but I want to place on record my support for her, and my pleasure at the way in which she delivered the project on time and on budget.
Mr. Baker: Will the Minister give way?
Janet Anderson: No, I have very little time and the hon. Gentleman took a great deal of that in the debate.
The right hon. Member for Henley talked about the initial vision that the dome would be an all-party project. He said that there was no political discussion in the commission, and it is a great shame that Conservative Members should have tried to bring party politics into the matter.
There has been some reference to sponsorship, and I can announce tonight that Mars has now signed the sponsorship contract. In addition, the two remaining sponsors, Boots and BSkyB, are committed at board level and have already made substantial financial contributions. They are using the millennium logo, and it merely remains for them to sign the fine print. I am sure that they will do so.
Conservative Members have also tried to criticise my right hon. Friend the Member for Hartlepool (Mr. Mandelson) for excessive secrecy when he was in charge of the project. However, the right hon. Member for Henley told the House that that was far from the case. Conservative Members should have listened to the right hon. Gentleman, who has a great deal of business experience. He described the dome as a project of complexity and sophistication. As he said, it was unfair that the project should have been subject to constant questioning, which no other similar project would have attracted.
My hon. Friend the Member for Eltham (Mr. Efford) has always been a firm supporter of the project. He mentioned the benefits that it had brought to industries around the country, and he is right. The steel used in the dome came from Bristol, and from Watson's Steel of Bolton, which is just next door to my constituency. I am therefore well aware of the benefits that have accrued to firms around the country.
I am astonished at how Conservative Members appear unaware of the value of tourism. The British Tourist Authority estimates that extra tourist spending of £1 billion will come into this country as a result of the
dome. Conservative Members should know that tourism is the fastest growing industry in the world. We look forward to the Conservative party's tourism policy, which I understand was launched in Belfast recently. However, we have not seen it yet.Earlier, I said that my right hon. Friend the Deputy Prime Minister took 600 children from his constituency to the dome today. A special train was hired to bring them down, and I should like to read the comments of a couple of the children who went. Emma Hewick, aged 11, said:
- "I loved the trip down, our dinner here and everything we saw. It's been a brill day."
- "It was all very educational, but also hugely enjoyable. All of it was excellent, and I now want to persuade my Mum and Dad to bring me all over again. The show was spectacular, and I wanted to be up there as well, flying through the air. It's been a brilliant day and I loved every second of it."
Mr. Baker: I am grateful to the Minister for giving way. I should like to make it absolutely clear that the purpose of the meeting, as far as I was concerned, was broadcasting. It was the Minister who wanted to talk about the millennium dome at that point. There is a difference between off-the-record briefings and public accountability in the House.
Janet Anderson: If the hon. Gentleman had told me that he was going to talk about broadcasting, I would not have taken the trouble to invite representatives of the New Millennium Experience Company to the meeting.
During the debate, right hon. and hon. Members have talked about the target of 12 million visitors over the year. I confirm that that is still the company's aim. It is now saying that it thinks that it can break even if it achieves a figure of 10 million. That is the difference, and I hope that Conservative Members will remember that.
Mr. Fraser: I am extremely pleased that the hon. Lady has given way. I have three pages of questions that I put to her earlier. I am happy to pass them across for her to start answering some of them.
Janet Anderson: I thank the hon. Gentleman. If only Conservative Members had allowed us a little more time in which to respond, we could have answered his questions.
My hon. Friend the Member for Watford (Ms Ward) referred, quite rightly, to the lack of interest shown by Conservative Members about the subject of what is, after all, their debate. They have talked a lot about the money spent on the dome. Yet it was their project originally, and the money spent on the dome accounts for only one
fifth of Millennium Commission funding. Some 622 constituencies around the country will be celebrating the millennium in their own communities as a result of millennium funding. My hon. Friend also quoted visitor satisfaction surveys. I will not repeat them, except to say that people obviously like the dome.The hon. Member for West Dorset (Mr. Letwin) says that not only has he not been to the dome to see it for himself, but he has no intention of going. I looked up the hon. Gentleman's career thus far before coming to the House, and I see that it followed the path of Eton, Trinity and the London business school. My strong advice to him is to go down to the dome, get into the real world and enjoy the very real cultural experience that if offers. The dome is all about attracting people--entertaining them, educating them, involving them and inspiring them. It is also about appealing to the many, not the few.
My hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Sparkbrook and Small Heath (Mr. Godsiff) said that he had had an interesting day out, but he referred to a possible clash of themes. That is not the experience of the majority of people who have gone there and confirmed that the dome offers something for everyone. It is not intended to be Disneyland; it is not a trumped-up trade show. The evidence is that so many people want to return.
Many questions have been posed tonight, and I am sorry--[Interruption.] It is no use Conservative Members bleating, because they allowed very little time for a response. We should all put ourselves behind the millennium dome, and put aside party politics. I wish that Conservative Members would stop carping; if they have not been to the dome, they should go now. If they do--
Mr. James Arbuthnot (North-East Hampshire) rose in his place and claimed to move, That the Question be now put.
Question, That the Question be now put, put and agreed to.
Question put accordingly, That the original words stand part of the Question:--
The House divided: Ayes 141, Noes 275.
AYES
Ainsworth, Peter (E Surrey)
Allan, Richard
Amess, David
Ancram, Rt Hon Michael
Arbuthnot, Rt Hon James
Atkinson, David (Bour'mth E)
Atkinson, Peter (Hexham)
Baker, Norman
Bell, Martin (Tatton)
Bercow, John
Beresford, Sir Paul
Blunt, Crispin
Body, Sir Richard
Boswell, Tim
Bottomley, Peter (Worthing W)
Bottomley, Rt Hon Mrs Virginia
Brady, Graham
Brazier, Julian
Brooke, Rt Hon Peter
Browning, Mrs Angela
Burnett, John
Burns, Simon
Butterfill, John
Campbell, Rt Hon Menzies
(NE Fife)
Cash, William
Chapman, Sir Sydney
(Chipping Barnet)
Chope, Christopher
Clappison, James
Clark, Dr Michael (Rayleigh)
Collins, Tim
Colvin, Michael
Cormack, Sir Patrick
Cotter, Brian
Curry, Rt Hon David
Davis, Rt Hon David (Haltemprice)
Day, Stephen
Duncan, Alan
Duncan Smith, Iain
Evans, Nigel
Faber, David
Fabricant, Michael
Fallon, Michael
Flight, Howard
Fraser, Christopher
Gale, Roger
Garnier, Edward
Gibb, Nick
Gill, Christopher
Gillan, Mrs Cheryl
Gray, James
Green, Damian
Grieve, Dominic
Hague, Rt Hon William
Hamilton, Rt Hon Sir Archie
Hammond, Philip
Hancock, Mike
Hawkins, Nick
Hayes, John
Heald, Oliver
Heath, David (Somerton & Frome)
Heathcoat-Amory, Rt Hon David
Howard, Rt Hon Michael
Howarth, Gerald (Aldershot)
Hunter, Andrew
Jack, Rt Hon Michael
Jenkin, Bernard
Kennedy, Rt Hon Charles
(Ross Skye & Inverness W)
Key, Robert
King, Rt Hon Tom (Bridgwater)
Kirkbride, Miss Julie
Kirkwood, Archy
Laing, Mrs Eleanor
Lait, Mrs Jacqui
Lansley, Andrew
Leigh, Edward
Letwin, Oliver
Lewis, Dr Julian (New Forest E)
Lidington, David
Lilley, Rt Hon Peter
Lloyd, Rt Hon Sir Peter (Fareham)
Loughton, Tim
Lyell, Rt Hon Sir Nicholas
MacGregor, Rt Hon John
MacKay, Rt Hon Andrew
Maclean, Rt Hon David
McLoughlin, Patrick
Madel, Sir David
Malins, Humfrey
Mates, Michael
Maude, Rt Hon Francis
May, Mrs Theresa
Moore, Michael
Morgan, Alasdair (Galloway)
Nicholls, Patrick
Norman, Archie
O'Brien, Stephen (Eddisbury)
Öpik, Lembit
Ottaway, Richard
Page, Richard
Paice, James
Pickles, Eric
Portillo, Rt Hon Michael
Prior, David
Randall, John
Redwood, Rt Hon John
Robertson, Laurence
Roe, Mrs Marion (Broxbourne)
Ruffley, David
Russell, Bob (Colchester)
St Aubyn, Nick
Sanders, Adrian
Sayeed, Jonathan
Shephard, Rt Hon Mrs Gillian
Shepherd, Richard
Simpson, Keith (Mid-Norfolk)
Soames, Nicholas
Spelman, Mrs Caroline
Spicer, Sir Michael
Spring, Richard
Steen, Anthony
Streeter, Gary
Swayne, Desmond
Tapsell, Sir Peter
Taylor, John M (Solihull)
Taylor, Matthew (Truro)
Taylor, Sir Teddy
Townend, John
Tredinnick, David
Trend, Michael
Tyler, Paul
Walter, Robert
Waterson, Nigel
Whitney, Sir Raymond
Whittingdale, John
Wilkinson, John
Willetts, David
Willis, Phil
Winterton, Mrs Ann (Congleton)
Winterton, Nicholas (Macclesfield)
Yeo, Tim
Young, Rt Hon Sir George
Tellers for the Ayes:
Mr. Geoffrey Clifton-Brown and
Mr. Peter Luff.
NOES
Allen, Graham
Anderson, Janet (Rossendale)
Armstrong, Rt Hon Ms Hilary
Ashton, Joe
Barnes, Harry
Barron, Kevin
Bayley, Hugh
Beard, Nigel
Beckett, Rt Hon Mrs Margaret
Benn, Hilary (Leeds C)
Benn, Rt Hon Tony (Chesterfield)
Benton, Joe
Bermingham, Gerald
Berry, Roger
Best, Harold
Betts, Clive
Blackman, Liz
Blears, Ms Hazel
Boateng, Rt Hon Paul
Borrow, David
Bradley, Keith (Withington)
Bradley, Peter (The Wrekin)
Bradshaw, Ben
Brown, Rt Hon Nick (Newcastle E)
Brown, Russell (Dumfries)
Browne, Desmond
Buck, Ms Karen
Burden, Richard
Butler, Mrs Christine
Campbell, Alan (Tynemouth)
Campbell, Ronnie (Blyth V)
Cann, Jamie
Caplin, Ivor
Casale, Roger
Cawsey, Ian
Chapman, Ben (Wirral S)
Chaytor, David
Chisholm, Malcolm
Clapham, Michael
Clark, Dr Lynda
(Edinburgh Pentlands)
Clark, Paul (Gillingham)
Clarke, Charles (Norwich S)
Clarke, Rt Hon Tom (Coatbridge)
Clarke, Tony (Northampton S)
Clelland, David
Coaker, Vernon
Coffey, Ms Ann
Coleman, Iain
Cooper, Yvette
Corbett, Robin
Corbyn, Jeremy
Cousins, Jim
Cox, Tom
Cranston, Ross
Crausby, David
Cryer, Mrs Ann (Keighley)
Cryer, John (Hornchurch)
Cunningham, Jim (Cov'try S)
Dalyell, Tam
Darling, Rt Hon Alistair
Davey, Valerie (Bristol W)
Davies, Rt Hon Denzil (Llanelli)
Davis, Rt Hon Terry (B'ham Hodge H)
Dawson, Hilton
Dean, Mrs Janet
Denham, John
Dismore, Andrew
Dobbin, Jim
Donohoe, Brian H
Dowd, Jim
Drew, David
Dunwoody, Mrs Gwyneth
Eagle, Angela (Wallasey)
Eagle, Maria (L'pool Garston)
Efford, Clive
Ellman, Mrs Louise
Ennis, Jeff
Etherington, Bill
Field, Rt Hon Frank
Fisher, Mark
Fitzsimons, Lorna
Flynn, Paul
Foster, Rt Hon Derek
Foster, Michael Jabez (Hastings)
Foulkes, George
Fyfe, Maria
Gapes, Mike
Gerrard, Neil
Gibson, Dr Ian
Gilroy, Mrs Linda
Godman, Dr Norman A
Godsiff, Roger
Goggins, Paul
Golding, Mrs Llin
Gordon, Mrs Eileen
Griffiths, Jane (Reading E)
Griffiths, Nigel (Edinburgh S)
Griffiths, Win (Bridgend)
Grocott, Bruce
Grogan, John
Hall, Mike (Weaver Vale)
Hall, Patrick (Bedford)
Hanson, David
Heal, Mrs Sylvia
Healey, John
Henderson, Doug (Newcastle N)
Henderson, Ivan (Harwich)
Hepburn, Stephen
Hesford, Stephen
Hill, Keith
Hood, Jimmy
Hoon, Rt Hon Geoffrey
Hope, Phil
Hopkins, Kelvin
Howarth, Alan (Newport E)
Howells, Dr Kim
Hoyle, Lindsay
Hughes, Ms Beverley (Stretford)
Hughes, Kevin (Doncaster N)
Humble, Mrs Joan
Hurst, Alan
Hutton, John
Iddon, Dr Brian
Jackson, Helen (Hillsborough)
Jenkins, Brian
Johnson, Alan (Hull W & Hessle)
Jones, Rt Hon Barry (Alyn)
Jones, Mrs Fiona (Newark)
Jones, Helen (Warrington N)
Keen, Alan (Feltham & Heston)
Kemp, Fraser
Kennedy, Jane (Wavertree)
Kidney, David
Kilfoyle, Peter
King, Andy (Rugby & Kenilworth)
Ladyman, Dr Stephen
Laxton, Bob
Lepper, David
Leslie, Christopher
Levitt, Tom
Lewis, Ivan (Bury S)
Lewis, Terry (Worsley)
Linton, Martin
Lloyd, Tony (Manchester C)
Love, Andrew
McAvoy, Thomas
McCabe, Steve
McCafferty, Ms Chris
McCartney, Rt Hon Ian
(Makerfield)
McDonagh, Siobhain
Macdonald, Calum
McDonnell, John
McGuire, Mrs Anne
McIsaac, Shona
McKenna, Mrs Rosemary
McNamara, Kevin
McNulty, Tony
MacShane, Denis
Mactaggart, Fiona
McWilliam, John
Mallaber, Judy
Marsden, Gordon (Blackpool S)
Marsden, Paul (Shrewsbury)
Marshall, David (Shettleston)
Marshall, Jim (Leicester S)
Marshall-Andrews, Robert
Martlew, Eric
Maxton, John
Meale, Alan
Merron, Gillian
Michie, Bill (Shef'ld Heeley)
Milburn, Rt Hon Alan
Miller, Andrew
Mitchell, Austin
Moffatt, Laura
Moran, Ms Margaret
Morris, Rt Hon Ms Estelle
(B'ham Yardley)
Morris, Rt Hon Sir John (Aberavon)
Mountford, Kali
Mowlam, Rt Hon Marjorie
Mudie, George
Mullin, Chris
Murphy, Jim (Eastwood)
Naysmith, Dr Doug
Norris, Dan
O'Brien, Bill (Normanton)
O'Hara, Eddie
Olner, Bill
O'Neill, Martin
Palmer, Dr Nick
Pearson, Ian
Pickthall, Colin
Pike, Peter L
Plaskitt, James
Pollard, Kerry
Pond, Chris
Pope, Greg
Pound, Stephen
Powell, Sir Raymond
Prentice, Ms Bridget (Lewisham E)
Prentice, Gordon (Pendle)
Prescott, Rt Hon John
Prosser, Gwyn
Quin, Rt Hon Ms Joyce
Quinn, Lawrie
Radice, Rt Hon Giles
Rapson, Syd
Raynsford, Nick
Reid, Rt Hon Dr John (Hamilton N)
Robinson, Geoffrey (Cov'try NW)
Rogers, Allan
Rooker, Rt Hon Jeff
Rowlands, Ted
Roy, Frank
Russell, Ms Christine (Chester)
Ryan, Ms Joan
Salter, Martin
Sarwar, Mohammad
Savidge, Malcolm
Sawford, Phil
Sedgemore, Brian
Shaw, Jonathan
Short, Rt Hon Clare
Simpson, Alan (Nottingham S)
Singh, Marsha
Skinner, Dennis
Smith, Rt Hon Andrew (Oxford E)
Smith, Angela (Basildon)
Smith, Rt Hon Chris (Islington S)
Smith, Jacqui (Redditch)
Snape, Peter
Southworth, Ms Helen
Spellar, John
Steinberg, Gerry
Stevenson, George
Stewart, David (Inverness E)
Stewart, Ian (Eccles)
Stinchcombe, Paul
Stoate, Dr Howard
Straw, Rt Hon Jack
Stringer, Graham
Stuart, Ms Gisela
Taylor, Rt Hon Mrs Ann
(Dewsbury)
Taylor, Ms Dari (Stockton S)
Taylor, David (NW Leics)
Temple-Morris, Peter
Thomas, Gareth (Clwyd W)
Thomas, Gareth R (Harrow W)
Thomas, Simon (Ceredigion)
Timms, Stephen
Tipping, Paddy
Touhig, Don
Trickett, Jon
Turner, Dennis (Wolverh'ton SE)
Turner, Dr Desmond (Kemptown)
Turner, Dr George (NW Norfolk)
Turner, Neil (Wigan)
Twigg, Derek (Halton)
Twigg, Stephen (Enfield)
Tynan, Bill
Vis, Dr Rudi
Ward, Ms Claire
Wareing, Robert N
Watts, David
White, Brian
Whitehead, Dr Alan
Wicks, Malcolm
Williams, Alan W (E Carmarthen)
Wills, Michael
Winnick, David
Winterton, Ms Rosie (Doncaster C)
Wise, Audrey
Woodward, Shaun
Wright, Anthony D (Gt Yarmouth)
Wright, Dr Tony (Cannock)
Tellers for the Noes:
Mr. Robert Ainsworth and
Mr. David Jamieson.
Question accordingly negatived.
Question, That the proposed words be there added, put forthwith, pursuant to Standing Order No. 31 (Questions on amendments):--
The House divided: Ayes 261, Noes 138.
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