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8.14 pm
Mr. Mike Gapes (Ilford, South): I want to take up the point about the European security and defence identity. Members of the Select Committee on Defence visited Brussels three weeks ago. From our discussions, and the contributions made by Ministers in evidence sessions, it was clear that there are two versions of the ESDI. The first is the paranoid, hysterical version that we have heard from the Opposition Benches, both Front and Back. The second is the real version, and can be found in the transcripts of the documents dealing with the Petersberg tasks.
The ESDI is about crisis management, and getting better use of resources in Europe. At NATO and the Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers Europe, we were told that it was not a question of extra resources. The problem was that, although 2 million troops are available in Europe, it is not possible to deploy them in such a way that up to 40,000 will be available at any one time. The ESDI will ensure that 50,000 troops will be capable of being deployed, for a period of six months, after which
another group of the same size will be available for deployment. That rotation will mean that there will need to be about 150,000 troops available for deployment or for sending to operational theatres in the continent of Europe.
My hon. Friend the Member for Stockton, North (Mr. Cook) has already referred to the need for some European countries to shift away from the mentality of territorial defence. With existing resources, it should be possible for various countries to achieve a much more effective deployment of military forces. British military experts and their counterparts at SHAPE are trying to work out the mechanics involved in that.
I am pleased that the Government are at the forefront of the initiative, and are telling other countries that we will continue the contributions that we have made to operations over recent years. The French have also contributed to various operations, although to a lesser extent because their conscription system makes involvement more difficult for them. The initiative will require a significant change in the way that the German armed forces work, while other countries will also make a contribution.
That second analysis of the nuts and bolts of the ESDI contrasts sharply with the hysterical words of Tory Members.
Dr. Julian Lewis:
Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Mr. Gapes:
No, I do not have time. I may give way near the end of my remarks, if there is some time left.
There have been interesting contributions from Conservative Front-Bench Members. The hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Mr. Duncan Smith) is just about to leave the Chamber. I do not mind if he does leave, but--judging from a remark that he made today and from his speech last week, which I read carefully--he seems to be advocating a breach of the anti-ballistic missile treaty.
That position is not taken by the American Administration, but by the right wing of the Republican party. The division in the United States over national missile defence or theatre missile defence is clear. The Clinton Administration consider that any changes to the treaty must be brought about either in ways that are consistent with the existing ABM treaty, or which are agreed after negotiations with the Russians. Up to now, the Clinton Government have not advocated a unilateral breach of the ABM treaty.
America's Republican-led Congress has passed resolutions that did not make President Clinton completely happy, but the nature of the American political system meant that he was forced to go along with them. I am worried lest statements made in this House or elsewhere in western Europe are seized on by right-wing forces in the United States that are unilateralist and which oppose the coalition and the international agreement. The right wing of the Conservative party therefore fosters the global unilateralism of the right wing in the United States, with the aim of undermining the transatlantic co-operation that those of us who are Atlanticists--whether of the left or the right--wish to foster to build the collective security that will be so important to the European continent in the future.
I am very pleased with the report from the Defence Committee which I have joined only recently. It highlights a number of areas of concern. It raises issues about which
there is more for the Government to do. However, at least we have, for the first time, an itemised breakdown of ethnic recruitment to our armed services. The Select Committee has been pressing for such a breakdown for 15 years. We can see that the Royal Navy and the Royal Air Force are not doing very well, and need to do better. We can press for a strengthening of recruitment so that our armed forces can reflect more accurately the society that they serve.
I should like to take up the point of the hon. Member for Canterbury (Mr. Brazier) by saying that I believe it important that our armed services have more women and a more representative cross-section of people, not just at the level of the ordinary squaddie but right the way through the structures. When we, like the American armed forces, have a Chief of the Defence Staff who is from an ethnic minority, we will be able to say that we have eradicated the problems that have arisen over many years in armed forces recruitment and retention.
Dr. Julian Lewis:
I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way. On a lighter note, and by the same token, would he say that the fact that we had a female Prime Minister means that we eradicated the problem of women's representation in Parliament?
Mr. Gapes:
I do not wish to go down that road, except to say that I had far more confidence in General Colin Powell and his judgment, both military and political, than I ever had in Baroness Thatcher's.
There are some difficult and worrying developments. Paragraph 47 of the Select Committee report points out that arms control and disarmament have not gone well over recent years. We have seen the failure of the Americans to ratify the comprehensive test ban treaty. We have seen the potential difficulty regarding a growing proliferation of nuclear weapons, and the tests in India and Pakistan. The non-proliferation review conference that is due to start in April will, as I understand it, be extremely difficult. Pledges made a few years ago about measures for further disarmament are not being fulfilled because of the United States and Russia not ratifying the START 2 negotiation treaty. That means that we have a blockage--an impediment--to any further development of nuclear disarmament negotiations. That is a very serious problem, and if there is a breakdown in the relationship between the United States and Russia over the anti-ballistic missile treaty, that augurs badly for the future not just of the relationship between those two very powerful countries but of European defence and security. The issue needs further consideration in the House, and I am pleased that the Select Committee has said that it will be given that consideration.
Mr. Andrew Hunter (Basingstoke):
To continue in the same vein as other right hon. and hon. Members, I associate myself with, and endorse, the tributes that have been paid to Michael Colvin. He and Nichola were good friends to me for 25 years or so. Like other right hon. and hon. Members, I grieve at their death and I shall miss them very greatly indeed.
I shall be selective and brief. When the Secretary of State opened the debate on Tuesday, he eulogised smart procurement. In reply, a number of my hon. Friends expressed the grave doubts and cynicism that exist on these Benches. To any dispassionate, objective observer, many aspects of procurement under this Government remain profoundly unsatisfactory--a sorry and all-too-familiar saga of delayed decisions on programmes that are essential to the effectiveness of our armed forces and, almost invariably, massive cost overruns. Although the Government talk of modernised systems of procurement, the supporting evidence is very patchy. With chapter 5 of the White Paper in mind, particularly the recognition of
The Eurofighter Typhoon enters front-line service in 2005. It will be armed with Raytheon advanced medium- range air-to-air missiles--AMRAAM. These are to be superseded from 2008 by the new beyond-visual-range air-to-air missile--BVRAAM. Bids for the BVRAAM were submitted to the Ministry of Defence as long ago as May 1998, and the overdue decision has yet to be announced. Given the £16 billion investment in the Eurofighter, few people would deny that it is essential that the aircraft is equipped with the best possible missile to ensure that it can provide future air supremacy and superiority for our forces. Obviously, the possession of the best possible missile will considerably boost the aircraft's export potential.
the interdependence between nations and companies
mentioned on page 44, I shall focus on just two procurement programmes. I acknowledge that what I say will be coloured by constituency interests.
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