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Mr. Eric Forth (Bromley and Chislehurst): When the Home Secretary reviews the extradition processes, will he do his best to introduce a filter against mischievous, maverick and politically motivated interventions by other countries in our judicial process? The right hon. Gentleman indicated that that was a large part of the problem, and such a filter would be a benefit of his quite proper review. If the Home Secretary fails to do that, it is possible that this country may be visited by fewer and fewer Heads of State--past and current--because they are afraid of the same happening to them. That might not be a bad thing from some people's point of view, but if we want an increasing number of heads of state from Africa and the far east to visit, they might seek some reassurance that they will not go through the same thing as Senator Pinochet.
Mr. Straw: Sometimes I find the right hon. Gentleman's arguments difficult to follow. If he is arguing that former Heads of State against whom there are allegations about the commissioning of serious crimes should enjoy immunity wherever they travel, I do not take that view.
The right hon. Gentleman implies that Spain's extradition request was mischievous and maverick. I do not for a second take that view either. That request was proper and was found by the Judicial Committee of the House of Lords in its first decision to be proper in all material respects as to the charges. The second decision by the House of Lords in March 1999 reduced the number of extradition crimes, but the two sets remaining, of torture and conspiracy to torture, were among the most serious of which anybody could be accused--and were backed by clear evidence. It would have remained to be seen, had extradition and a trial taken place, what decision would be arrived at by an independent Spanish court. But in no sense do I criticise Spain for seeking extradition.
Ms Jenny Jones (Wolverhampton, South-West):
My constituents include victims of Pinochet's brutal regime, and today they and I are required to swallow a very bitter pill. Can my right hon. Friend say where my constituents can turn now for the justice they ought to receive for the violations of their human rights?
Mr. Straw:
I understand of course that for anybody who was in Chile and suffered at the hands of the Chilean
We in Europe accord to people suspected of crimes greater rights than those accorded by many dictators to their victims--some of whom are never given the chance of a fair trial before they are convicted and punished for their alleged crimes. An essential part of our rule of law--and something to which Chile is aspiring--is that while international obligations require us to pursue persons against whom serious criminal allegations have been made, they are provided with minimal safeguards. One of those safeguards is that such persons should be fit to stand trial.
Mr. Edward Leigh (Gainsborough):
I wonder whether the Home Secretary is sensing the temperature of the House? Both sides in this issue feel embittered and frustrated by the way matters have been handled. There is not just our view that this is an abuse of the ancient rule of hospitality against a guest of this country who showed us nothing but friendship in our hour of need. There is also the view of Government Back Benchers that the Home Secretary has used doctors to get him off a hook of his own making. As this episode unfolds, does not the right hon. Gentleman feel that he should have acted more decisively in October 1998--instead of clouding the whole issue in pseudo-legalisms and achieving nothing for this country or for Anglo-Chilean relations?
Mr. Straw:
In my study of British extradition law over 17 months, I have never spotted even in a footnote that one of the considerations that I have to take into account is "the ancient rule of hospitality". That was not one of our considerations. I did act decisively in October 1998--I refused to quash the extradition warrant. The hon. Gentleman should have said that I made a decision with which he disagreed--that would have been the honest position to have adopted. Throughout this case, I have acted decisively. I have made decisions, whether yes or no, on the basis of the proposition before me. I have always been aware that whatever decision I would make would please some people and displease others.
Mr. Gareth Thomas (Clwyd, West):
May I thank my right hon. Friend for explaining precisely how he arrived at what was obviously a finely balanced judgment? Does he agree that although many people will find it difficult to understand why it was not possible to see justice done in this case, we should not lose sight of the fact that this country facilitated the process whereby important principles of international law were established--first, that there should be universal jurisdiction for human rights abuses, and secondly, that Heads of State cannot automatically rely upon immunity? Does my right hon. Friend agree that important principles have been established none the less?
Mr. Straw:
Yes, I entirely agree with my hon. Friend that the principle of universal jurisdiction in respect of very serious crimes such as torture is now established as, too, is the principle that former heads of state are not immune from a process for such alleged crimes. If the
Mr. Patrick Nicholls (Teignbridge):
There is something uniquely shabby, even by the standards of this Government, in laying on a reception for Senator Pinochet when he arrived in the country and then conniving at his arrest under a defective warrant. Does the Home Secretary realise that the rest of us understand that the reason he sought medical evidence, or acceded to that request, was not his concern about Senator Pinochet's human rights, but the dawning realisation of the nightmare that would descend upon him if Senator Pinochet died in our jurisdiction? Is not one of the conclusions that he can draw from today's exchanges in the House that any lingering reputation that he had for ministerial competence has quite gone?
Mr. Straw:
I leave aside the hon. Gentleman's gratuitous insult. What he says is wrong from top to bottom. There was no conniving at the arrest. He fails to understand that there is a separation of powers here. The hospitality department of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office is not also a police department that executes warrants. [Interruption.] There should not be liaison between the hospitality department of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and the police and prosecuting authorities in this country. If there were liaison, there would be most serious allegations of connivance--it could be alleged that we were conniving to ensure that a fugitive from justice should escape from justice again. The Conservative party claims to be the party of law, yet for 17 months Conservative Members have been inviting me to ignore the law in order in pursuit of their own political convenience.
As to the suggestion that this was a defective warrant, the warrant was not defective--it was found to be fully effective by the courts. On two occasions, not one, my decision in respect of those warrants was challenged by Senator Pinochet's lawyers, and on both occasions the court found in my favour.
Ms Glenda Jackson (Hampstead and Highgate):
It is not only shabby but entirely predictable that the Conservative party should continue to act as apologists for murderers and torturers. Did my right hon. Friend, upon the Spanish authorities receiving the medical evidence, receive notification from them of the withdrawal of their extradition order? Has the medical evidence been furnished to the Chilean authorities, whose ambassador to this country has upon more than one occasion stated that it is the aim of that Government to bring General Pinochet to justice? Should the general, as many of my constituents who suffered at his hands believe, undergo a miraculous improvement once returned to Chile, will the Government assist the Chilean Government in making every effort to ensure that at some point he stands before a court of law?
Mr. Straw:
So far as I am aware, and I have taken this only from the television, the Spanish Government have indicated that they accept the decision that I have made in this case. There was some suggestion on the television
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