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Incapacity Benefit
3. Mr. Tam Dalyell (Linlithgow): What recent representations he has received from disablement groups on incapacity benefit. [111831]
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Social Security (Mr. Hugh Bayley): We have received a number of representations on incapacity benefit from organisations representing disabled people, principally on matters relating to measures in the Welfare Reform and Pensions Act 1999.
Mr. Dalyell: What are the reasons for the underspend on disability benefits of £754 million, as reported by the National Audit Office?
Mr. Bayley: The National Audit Office report's figure of £754 million represents the difference between forecast expenditure and actual expenditure. However, the number of people claiming and receiving disability living allowance has continued to go up. In the latest year for which figures are available, there was an increase of 62,000 people receiving the allowance.
Miss Anne McIntosh (Vale of York): Does the Minister regret means-testing incapacity benefit and thereby damaging genuinely disabled people--the very vulnerable people whom the Conservative party tried to help when we were last in government?
Mr. Bayley: The hon. Lady continues to perpetuate a myth. A means test takes regard of income and capital, and incapacity benefit has not been means-tested. We have introduced a system that takes some account of occupational pensions, for the simple reason that such pensions, when paid early on grounds of sickness, serve the same purpose as incapacity benefit.
Mr. David Winnick (Walsall, North): Will my hon. Friend accept that the Labour party has campaigned for disabled people over many years, through the work of people such as Lord Alf Morris and Lord Ashley? I am sure that my hon. Friend will not mind my candour, but I hope that we shall not have a repeat of what happened in Parliament over incapacity benefit last year.
Mr. Bayley: I can reassure my hon. Friend that, over the lifetime of this Parliament, the Government's expenditure on disability benefits will have risen by £1 billion, in real terms.
Mr. Andrew George (St. Ives): Notwithstanding his answer to the hon. Member for Linlithgow (Mr. Dalyell), does the Minister accept that a massive amount of incapacity benefit is not taken up? Would he accept that there is therefore no reason to go ahead with the planned, but much opposed, cuts in the benefit?
Mr. Bayley: No, I do not accept that. Some people with an entitlement to disability living allowance do not claim it, for a variety of reasons--perhaps they do not know about the benefit, or perhaps they do not regard themselves as sufficiently disabled. We are always considering ways to ensure that the benefit is paid to those who are entitled to it. However, the hon. Gentleman
should also bear it in mind that 40 per cent. of those who claim disability living allowance do not meet the entitlement conditions. So encouraging more people to apply would simply mean that more were disappointed, and that the waiting time for people who need the benefit and who qualify for it would be even longer.Benefits Agency
4. Mr. Syd Rapson (Portsmouth, North): What steps his Department is taking to improve the ways in which the Benefits Agency communicates with the public. [111832]
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Social Security (Angela Eagle): We are improving the way in which we notify and explain decisions to people. We have redesigned leaflets around age groups and life events instead of benefits, making them simpler and easier to follow. We are working through one-to-one personal advisers in the new deals and the ONE service to help people take up the opportunities open to them, which is crucial to our success in tackling poverty. We are also investing in our service to pensioners, so that we can take claims and deal with queries over the telephone.
Mr. Rapson: I thank my hon. Friend for that very good answer. However, is there any way for the Benefits Agency to use the vast network of sub-post offices to underline the Government's commitment to enabling claimants to carry on receiving their benefits through post offices? That would also allay the fears of the 20,000 people in Portsmouth who have been seriously misled by a Liberal Democrat campaign into believing that their benefits will not be paid through a post office. The campaign has succeeded only in worrying a lot of people who should not have to worry about such matters.
Angela Eagle: People must be very careful that they are not seriously misled by Liberal Democrat campaigns. I assure the House that, even after the move to automated credit transfer, people will still be able to choose to access their cash at a post office if they want. The Post Office and the Department of Social Security have recently launched a joint poster explaining that, which should be available in post offices. I hope that it is displayed alongside the petitions.
Mr. Paul Burstow (Sutton and Cheam): The Liberal Democrat's communications appear to be more effective than the Government's. Could the Minister address herself to another aspect of Government communication in respect of the current payments to assist people in meeting their mortgage costs when they are unemployed and on income support? Is she aware that many of my constituents do not believe that they have received adequate communications and explanations about why, since June last year, the rate of 6.6 per cent. that has been set by the Department has not been increased? As a consequence, many people are finding their mortgages increasingly difficult to meet and are in greater debt. Could the Department improve its communication in that respect?
Angela Eagle: There is a great deal of misunderstanding about the availability of mortgage interest support for those who become unemployed. We are trying, with the Council
of Mortgage Lenders, to do some more work to persuade people that they need to take out mortgage interest protection for the first nine months when they are not entitled to any benefits.
The hon. Gentleman is referring to the composite interest rates that are used to calculate this benefit. They were introduced a few years ago because of the proliferation of different mortgage interest rates. There were more than 1,000, and it was impossible to calculate them. People need to realise, when they are contemplating a mortgage, that, if they become unemployed, the composite mortgage interest rate will apply. The state will pay not what people owe on their mortgage but the standard interest rate. That is a matter of record.
Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley):
Will my hon. Friend confirm that some 700,000 pensioners are eligible for income support, but do not claim it? We have heard for some time that the Department intends to publicise those matters, but many people in my constituency are still surprised when I tell them that they are eligible to claim. Can my hon. Friend go into more detail as to how the Government propose to bring the message home that, if people are eligible for benefits, there is no shame in claiming them?
Angela Eagle:
My hon. Friend is right to say that there is absolutely no shame in claiming the benefits to which one is entitled. The Government will shortly be making an announcement on this very subject. I hope that she will participate in the take-up campaign when it gets going.
5. Mr. Edward Leigh (Gainsborough):
What recent representations he has received from outside organisations about his policies for tackling organised benefit fraud. [111833]
The Secretary of State for Social Security (Mr. Alistair Darling):
A number of organisations were consulted as part of the review of organised benefit fraud. They are listed in the report, which is in the Library.
Mr. Leigh:
Does the finding of the Government's Scampion report that there was insufficient information, or no interchange of information between local authorities, on benefit fraud underline the need for a single national benefits investigation agency to co-ordinate these matters and ensure that we crack down on fraud?
Mr. Darling:
The hon. Gentleman makes one good point in particular. In the past, the flow of information between the Benefits Agency and local authorities was not satisfactory. We changed that when we came to office so that, by the end of this financial year, any local authority that wants it--and nearly all of them do--will have access to the Benefits Agency computer systems and the Benefits Agency will have access to council computer systems to cross-match data. Cross-checking DSS records and other state records, as well as local authority records, has already saved £150 million. So it is important that
Mr. Frank Field (Birkenhead):
Does the Secretary of State accept that one very useful measure to counter organised fraud would be to get every local authority not to redirect girocheques to safe addresses? Does he accept that one estimate suggests that £400 million would be saved by universalising that move? Would that not pay for a huge campaign to ensure the take-up of income support among our older pensioners? That being so, will he set a time limit for all the laggards among local authorities to sign up to that scheme within the next two months?
Mr. Darling:
My right hon. Friend is right: I attach much importance to stopping the Post Office from redirecting mail--that is why I announced just such an initiative almost a year ago. I am glad to say that an increasing number of local authorities now operate a scheme; I am confident that all of them will do so before too long. It saves substantial sums. What is surprising is that the previous Conservative Government did nothing about the problem.
Mr. Steve Webb (Northavon):
Last summer, the Government set themselves a target of a 10 per cent. fall in benefit fraud by 2002, yet the latest departmental figures show a negligible fall, described by the Secretary of State's own civil servants as not statistically significant. Will he reaffirm that target, or is this another case of the DSS talking tough and achieving little?
Mr. Darling:
Of course the Government are adhering to those targets. The hon. Gentleman should know better than most that there are several problems within the system that will take some time to remedy; for example, the computer systems that we operate will have to be replaced. In addition, the move to make direct payment of benefits into bank accounts, of which his party is critical, will save substantial sums lost in fraud. Furthermore, we have insisted that people must now establish their identity to the satisfaction of benefit officers before they can obtain benefit. That will save £1 billion during this Parliament alone--[Interruption.] The hon. Gentleman can wave documents as much as he wants, but he must face the fact that, unlike him, we are not just talking about reducing the amount lost through fraud; we are taking concrete steps to do so by tightening up the gateways to the benefit system and making it more difficult for people to fiddle the system. If they fiddle the system, they will get caught--as a growing number of people are finding out.
Mr. Dale Campbell-Savours (Workington):
My right hon. Friend referred to establishing one's identity to the benefit officer. What is our position on the use of national identity cards in that matter? Are we still wholly opposed to it?
Mr. Darling:
As far as I am aware, no one is suggesting that we should introduce a national identity card system. There are many difficulties with that--not least the expense of setting it up. There are means to identify people at present: everyone has a national insurance number; and it is possible to ascertain people's
Mr. Eric Pickles (Brentwood and Ongar):
What does not make sense is to boast that numbers are going down based on figures that the Department described as statistically insignificant. The Secretary of State does not seem to understand what is going on. He talks about computers, but Scampion points out that much of the anti-fraud initiative is written down--it is being carried around manually. He refers to local authorities talking to the Benefits Agency but, according to Scampion, the problem is that local authorities are not talking to one another. They cannot tackle organised fraud because they are not passing on good tips. When will the right hon. Gentleman do something about fraud? When will he actually establish something? Is this not the purest example of all talk and no delivery?
Mr. Darling:
I admire the hon. Gentleman's panache. He refers to the fact that local authorities do not always give us the information we need.
Mr. Darling:
I am glad that the hon. Gentleman points that out. When we telephoned Brentwood to find out why we were not receiving the information to which the Government are entitled, we were told that it was an apparent oversight by the benefits manager, who was away from the office. That is happening in his own local authority. That authority is not telling us what we need to know. Instead of asking me what is going wrong, he should ask his own council why it is not collecting and giving us the information that we need.
Mr. Pickles:
Brentwood is a Liberal Democrat council.
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