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Ms Shipley: Earlier in the debate, I raised the issue of violence in the home. I should clarify that I am talking not about smacking, but kicking, punching, the stubbing out of cigarettes on children, very serious assault and a range of neglect, which the right hon. Gentleman has pinpointed. Does he agree that if, as a result of the Waterhouse report, good practice is developed in Wales, it should be a matter of political leadership that it is very quickly transferred to other parts of the country?
Mr. Wigley: Yes, I agree with the hon. Lady on both points. On her second point, we in Wales have clearly closely adhered to a fairly radical and progressive social agenda over many years and in different political contexts. If we can make progress that can be implemented and learned from in other parts of the United Kingdom, all the better. We are looking for the power and the right to be able to make progress in Wales in line with the wishes of the National Assembly, and to do so as quickly as possible.
The hon. Lady's first point is fundamental to the entire question. It would be far better if we could avoid the need for children to go into care by ensuring that they are looked after properly. That means being sensitive to the problems that they might be suffering in their homes and communities. If we can respond sufficiently rapidly, it might be possible sometimes to head off the trouble before it becomes too bad. There may be a need for foster homes in some instances, but there should not be an artificial barrier restricting the work of the children's commissioner. That view is widely shared in Wales.
All such points touch on the question of how much wider the problems go. I have the distinct feeling that the report touches only the very tip of a huge iceberg. The report implies that problems, particularly in the formal care sector in Clwyd and Gwynedd, may extend to other geographic areas--reference has been made by hon. Members to that--and that the breakdown of the care system, or even an absence of appropriate systems, may be endemic throughout these islands.
The issue of treatment of children within their own homes may require in-depth consideration. Although I took the point made by the hon. Member for Macclesfield (Mr. Winterton) on the extent to which the state should interfere in families, I am sure that not only he and I but all hon. Members believe that children's welfare must be the paramount consideration. Although we must not interfere more than necessary, when it is necessary to do so, we have to take responsibility to ensure that well-being. The children at-risk register is one example of how we take such responsibility.
I hope that Ministers, in responding to the report, will address the issues that it raises in a much wider context, not only geographically but in terms of the responsibilities that we as a community have towards our children.
The report highlights three or four key issues that must be addressed if we are to improve standards. The first is the training of the staff who look after children and young people. Recommendations 25 to 30 address that issue.
The pay and quality of staff is another issue, and addressing it is a basic requirement if we are to improve our standards. We have to make progress on appointing a children's complaints officer in each authority. We also have to address the issue of staff management tiers, and of appointing a specified social worker for each child in care.
We also need a statutory independent advocacy service, which was mentioned earlier in the debate. On that, I received a very moving letter from the mother of a young boy, who is autistic. She wrote:
We need resources to address those issues. The Minister mentioned the sum of £370 million, but I seriously doubt whether that will be enough. We have to ensure that sufficient resources are made available, in England and, in Wales, to the National Assembly. We also have to ensure that the money provided to Wales is in addition to the Barnett block grant, as that is currently defined. The Waterhouse report specifically, in paragraph 69, highlights the need to provide adequate resources in Wales, at a national level, for those purposes.
Paragraph 64 of the report calls for a general review of the needs and costs of children's services, with a comprehensive and costed strategy. Waterhouse puts foursquare to the Government the need for more resources to safeguard our children.
Earlier, I mentioned the responsibility of elected representatives. As company directors are aware of their legal responsibilities towards those whose interests they safeguard, we have to ensure that elected representatives are aware of their responsibilities. In some ways, members of local authorities and hon. Members have even more serious responsibilities. We have to ensure that we are all not only aware of every aspect of those responsibilities, but fulfil them.
Recommendations 71 and 72 are the final recommendations in the report, and call for the Law Commission to ensure that the legal issues arising from the Jillings report--which was not published because of the pressure put on Clwyd council by the insurers--are addressed. Had that report been fully and promptly published, action might have been taken much sooner, thereby avoiding some of the difficulties.
On Wednesday, my colleague Gareth Jones, Assembly Member for Conwy, spoke very strongly on that matter. He was speaking from his own experience, both as a former headmaster of John Bright's comprehensive school in Llandudno, and as a local county councillor. He highlighted the failure to implement the lessons of previous inquiries--Cartrefle, Jillings and Cleveland. He called for implementation of Sir Alan Marre's report, back in 1978, entitled "Ad Hoc Inquiries in Local Government". That report is quoted on page 486 of the Waterhouse report.
The Marre report suggested changes in law, to enable local authorities to establish formal inquiries--a point that Waterhouse also emphasised very strongly, on page 485. I hope that Ministers will urgently ask the Law Commission to consider the Waterhouse recommendations on that matter.
Mr. Martyn Jones (Clwyd, South):
Hon. Members will not be surprised to learn that, as a north Wales Member, I should like to focus on the Waterhouse inquiry. I should also like to introduce a slight note of discord into the debate. Although the Waterhouse report makes some very good recommendations, which I shall deal with later, I know that at least some of the victims feel let down by it. I am disappointed in some of its conclusions.
My involvement in the issue dates from about 1989, when a victim came to a surgery that I was holding in my then constituency. He was not a constituent of mine, and the abuse did not occur in one of the homes in my constituency, although events of that nature occurred in some of the homes in my constituency. I thought that the best plan would be to pass him on to the then chair of Clwyd county council social services, Mr. Malcolm King--who deserves an accolade for the efforts that he made to discover the problems that were occurring.
I was a Clwyd county councillor, from 1981 to 1989, although, from 1987 onwards, I was also a Member of Parliament and did not participate much in the county council's proceedings. However, at that time, there was no whisper at all of any problem--at least not to those of us who were in opposition on the council. It was only later, after the Labour party took control of the council, in 1989, that the matter started to be examined. I give Councillor King credit for that.
As we have heard, Councillor King's efforts resulted, ultimately, in an internal inquiry, which has come to be called the Jillings report. John Jillings, at the request of county councillors, produced the report. As we have also heard, that report was effectively suppressed by the insurance company. The council's insurers refused to allow it to be published.
Although Waterhouse recommended that that should be looked at, he said that it was not illegal. It is appalling for councils to be punished financially for acting in the interests of children. It would be astonishing if we allowed that to go on. The Government must ensure that it cannot happen again. If the Jillings report had been allowed to be published, we would have been able to investigate the issues a lot earlier, and I am sure that some of the victims who committed suicide after that would still be alive.
Mr. Nicholas Winterton:
The hon. Gentleman is not the first hon. Member to mention that the Jillings report was not published because the council was apparently refused the opportunity or right to publish it. Under what law can an insurance company prevent a publicly elected body such as Clwyd county council from publishing a report on such a critical matter? That is an issue of deep concern.
What about the children who can't talk or communicate at all? My son is eight and autistic. He would be unable to get help if anyone was to hurt him.
We need that advocacy service if we are to ensure that the system we are developing provides safeguards to the most vulnerable children.
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