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Museums and Galleries
11. Mrs. Ann Cryer (Keighley): How many children have benefited from his measures allowing free entry to national museums and galleries. [114864]
The Minister for the Arts (Mr. Alan Howarth): Since additional funds were provided at the start of April last year to enable free entry to those national museums and galleries sponsored by my Department which charge for admission, 4,275,951 children are estimated to have benefited up to the end of January. That figure represents an increase of some 18 per cent. on the same period in the previous 12 months.
Mrs. Cryer: I have a twofold financial interest in the measures because I have six grandchildren under eight and I am 60, so we will all benefit. Does my hon. Friend agree that the railway operating companies could offer cheap fares to school parties, which would be helpful because more children would go to national galleries and museums in term time, alleviating some of the pressures at weekends and in school holidays? I took three of my grandchildren to the science museum last August on three occasions, and each time the queues were so long that they missed many opportunities to participate in activities that I know they would have enjoyed.
Does my hon. Friend agree also that the onus is now on the Conservative party to make clear its policy on reintroducing charges for entry to our museums?
Mr. Howarth: I think that there must be an error on my hon. Friend's birth certificate. However, I would not accuse her of misleading the House, so clearly when she takes her grandchildren to any of our national museums and galleries from the beginning of April she will, like them, benefit from free entry. Those places are popular and, as she says, sometimes the queues are long, and those problems certainly need to be managed. I take her point
about the desirability of finding ways to enable people to have cheap or even free public transport to national museums and galleries. There is a fund available: the museums and galleries access fund, funded and administered by the heritage lottery fund, which has ring-fenced £7 million to enable museums to run projects that will increase access to their collections. Subject to the discretion of trustees, it would be in order for railway operators to work with museums to take advantage of that funding.
Madam Speaker: Order. Time is up. The last question took three minutes--we are taking far too long over questions and answers.
CHURCH COMMISSIONERS
The hon. Member for Middlesbrough, representing the Church Commissioners, was asked--
Church Repairs (VAT)
27. Miss Anne McIntosh (Vale of York): When he will meet a Minister of the Crown to discuss reduced rates of VAT for church repairs. [114843]
Mr. Stuart Bell (Second Church Estates Commissioner, representing the Church Commissioners): The hon. Lady will be pleased to learn that I led a delegation to meet the Minister for the Arts on 23 March. The delegation included the hon. Member for South Staffordshire (Sir P. Cormack) and my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool, South(Mr. Marsden). I thank the Minister, who is still in the Chamber, for his courtesy and his time, as well as for the manner in which he conducted the meeting. I am pleased to say that the meeting was constructive. Although the Church was disappointed not to obtain any relief in the Budget by way of reduced rates of VAT on church repairs, we continue to journey in hope.
Miss McIntosh: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that answer. Will he join me in renewing our campaign, based on the understanding that other member states of the European Union treat churches as heritage buildings and apply a reduced rate of VAT? Following his meeting with the Minister for the Arts, does the hon. Gentleman think that there is some chance of churches in this country being treated similarly?
Mr. Bell: I am glad to take the opportunity to thank the hon. Lady and other hon. Members on both sides of the House who have taken an interest in this important subject. It cannot be right that a tax that falls hardest on individual parishes and faith communities also works against the widely accepted view that repair and maintenance play a key role in the conservation and reuse of buildings. We are considering every avenue of discussion with the Treasury, and I shall be glad to examine the point that the hon. Lady raises.
Mr. Gordon Marsden (Blackpool, South): Does my hon. Friend agree that it is nonsense that new build in this country attracts no VAT, whereas repairs to historic buildings and churches attract VAT at the full rate? Does he also agree that the importance of church renewal to the rural economy should be presented to colleagues at the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions, to be taken into account in the forthcoming rural White Paper?
Mr. Bell: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for tabling an early-day motion on the subject. He has forcefully pointed out the contradictions between a Government policy that favours conservation and a tax regime that penalises repair and maintenance but zero rates inappropriate alterations and new build, and disadvantages brownfield development in relation to greenfield development. It cannot be right for the Treasury each year to cream off in VAT far more than it gives to English Heritage in grants to help our precious inheritance. My hon. Friend's support and that of hon. Members on both sides of the House will help our efforts to persuade the Treasury, the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions and the Department for Culture, Media and Sport to accept our proposals.
Consultation
28. Mr. Simon Hughes (Southwark, North and Bermondsey): What processes they use for consulting Church members on their proposals. [114844]
Mr. Stuart Bell (Second Church Estates Commissioner, representing the Church Commissioners): The Commissioners send copies of draft schemes under the Pastoral Measure 1983 by post to parochial church councils and other interested parties. If the scheme is to declare a church redundant, or to deal with the future of a redundant church, they also publish a notice in a local newspaper. Anyone may make representations to the commissioners within the period of at least 28 days prescribed in the notice. On the matter of finances, the commissioners' annual report and accounts will be published shortly and will be widely disseminated within the Church and to the general public.
Mr. Hughes: On the issue of Church finances, the Church Commissioners are the equivalent of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Can we ensure that every Church member at diocese, deanery and parish level is annually consulted about the Church's financial policy--for example, on questions of ethical investment and where money should be spent? We must establish a democratic process by which to decide how the Church raises money and how it spends it.
Mr. Bell: The Church Commissioners will spend their money in accordance with the statute, to pay the stipends of the parish priests and also the pensions. That is our statutory responsibility. In relation to the annual report and accounts, we will seek to disseminate that information as widely as we can. While we welcome suggestions about how we should spend our money, we are nevertheless bound by statute and our statutory obligations.
Mr. Andrew Reed (Loughborough): Although I welcome the attempts to make the process as open and accountable as possible, does my hon. Friend agree that ordinary church members in the constituencies, like ourselves, feel a long way away from the decision-making process, particularly on questions of ethical investment? Will my hon. Friend give the matter further consideration to see whether there could be greater involvement for ordinary church members, like many of those in the House, who have little say over the present arrangements?
Mr. Bell: I am grateful for my hon. Friend's question. He will be pleased to know, as the House will be pleased to know, that the unaudited results of the Commissioners for 1999 show that their assets fully committed to the support of the Church's ministry were valued at more than £4.4 billion at the end of last year. I am sure that every churchgoer in the land will be happy to see that, if I may say so, under my stewardship the assets of the Church Commissioners has risen from £3 billion to £4.4 billion.
PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMISSION
The Chairman of the Public Accounts Commission was asked--
National Audit Office
29. Mr. David Heath (Somerton and Frome): What recent discussions he has had with the Chancellor of the Exchequer on the implications for the National Audit Office of proposals within the Government Resources and Accounts Bill. [114845]
Mr. Robert Sheldon (Chairman of the Public Accounts Commission): Together with the Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee, I met the Chief Secretary to the Treasury in December to put our concern that the Government Resources and Accounts Bill represented a wasted opportunity to bring the powers of the Comptroller and Auditor General and the National Audit Office in line with modern government. That concern was most recently set out in the Public Accounts Committee's ninth report of this Session. Since then, the Bill has addressed some of our concerns and the Chief Secretary has announced a study to recommend suitable audit and accountability arrangements for central Government in the 21st century. I hope that during the remainder of the Bill's passage, the Government will add appropriate enabling clauses to ensure that the review's recommendations can have statutory force.
Mr. Heath: I am sure that I speak for the entire House in warmly welcoming the right hon. Gentleman back to his place.
Does the right hon. Gentleman welcome the announcement by Ministers that they were prepared to continue to talk about bringing executive non- departmental public bodies into the remit of the National Audit Office, or is he disappointed that the necessary
provisions have not already been put into the Bill?Will he take part in those discussions over the next few weeks?
Mr. Sheldon: Clearly, there is much to be done. Parliamentary accountability must go hand in hand with Government accountability. Many Treasury Ministers in the past have been allies of the ideas of the Public Accounts Committee in bringing these matters to the front, so that we could follow public money where it goes. That is the important aspect. We must be able to follow that public money, in most cases--not necessarily all, but in most cases--so that we can show that the money has been properly spent. That is the only way in which we can achieve such accountability, which both thePublic Accounts Committee and the Public Accounts Commission dearly want.
Mr. Dale Campbell-Savours (Workington): On the behalf of the staff of the National Audit Office, may I express their thanks to Mr. Duncan Goodhew for ensuring that my right hon. Friend is here today to represent the National Audit Office in the dispute with the Treasury?
Mr. Sheldon: I am overwhelmed by the generosity of so many friends.
Mr. Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (Cotswold): May I, too, offer the right hon. Gentleman a warm welcome on his return to the House? Does he recall that during the passage of the Government Resources and Accounts Bill, we had a long discussion about the fact that the European Court of Auditors in many instances has greater access than our own Comptroller and Auditor General? Does he think that that is right?
Mr. Sheldon: Clearly, that is wrong. Not only that, but the Audit Commission has power to seek information, which the National Audit Office does not. There are obviously a number of gaps, which must be closed.
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