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Mr. Tam Dalyell (Linlithgow): Was anybody in Lisbon the least bit surprised that it was deemed unsafe for George Robertson to go to Mitrovica? If the Prime Minister talks about winning the peace, does he not have to address the subject of Serbia--a wounded and deeply resentful animal--and may it not mean spending a great deal of money and talking, however unpalatable it may be, to Mr. Milosevic?
The Prime Minister: Of course we discussed the Balkans and Serbia in detail. Money is reserved for Serbia, but there has to be the democratic transition. We are not prepared to put money in the pockets of Milosevic. It is important for us to keep up the pressure for change there, to engage properly with the democratic opposition in Serbia and to recognise that it is in the interests of a wider Balkan strategy for Serbia to become a proper democratic state. We are working to that end, and that is really the best thing that we can do.
Mr. Tim Collins (Westmorland and Lonsdale): Does the Prime Minister have any message from Lisbon for the hon. Member for Liverpool, Walton (Mr. Kilfoyle), who is about to give him a message?
The Prime Minister: I have not the faintest idea what the hon. Gentleman is talking about.
Mrs. Alice Mahon (Halifax): On the Balkans, does the Prime Minister agree that it is equally important to get back home the 800,000 refugees who are now living in Serbia, a quarter of a million of whom have been ethnically cleansed from Kosovo? During a recent visit to a camp there, my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Medway (Mr. Marshall-Andrews) and I witnessed at first hand just how miserable the conditions are, and we were informed by the Red Cross and the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees that sanctions are really hurting refugees, some of whom have been there for eight years. Did the European Council discuss what could be done to relieve the plight of those 800,000 people, or do we have undeserving and deserving refugees?
The Prime Minister: No, we certainly do not have those two categories. We have agreed already that humanitarian aid can go to those refugees, and that is not the principal problem. The principal problem is how one reconstructs Serbia while a highly dictatorial, undemocratic regime is in place there. That we cannot allow. My hon. Friend is right to say that there were refugees from Kosovo into Serbia, but think how much worse the situation would be if we had allowed Kosovo
to be ethnically cleansed and we had a million Kosovo Albanian refugees going around Europe. The only way forward was to right the wrong that was done and work constructively to win the peace, but that cannot be done--or at least, it is far more difficult--while Milosevic remains in power in Serbia.
Mr. Julian Brazier (Canterbury): While the Prime Minister was having discussions with colleagues on the sustainability of pensions, did he tell his European colleagues that when he took office, this country had as much saved in its pension funds as the whole of the rest of Europe put together? Did he advise them to do what he has done, which is to tax £5 billion a year out of pension funds, and to tax even very small amounts of dividend income held by pensioners, while at the same time providing a minimum income guarantee to those who have not been able to provide for their pensions?
The Prime Minister: That is a slightly different topic. First, the single most important aspect is the value of the money in people's pension funds. As a result of what has happened in this country over the past two or three years and the strength of the economy, that value is high and has risen enormously. Secondly, the 10p tax rate on savings has been very helpful and, thirdly, we have agreed a series of measures--such as lifting the savings rate on capital and ensuring that all pensioners get a proper tax-free winter allowance--that help not just the poorest pensioners. I make no apologies, as I have said before to the hon. Gentleman and his colleagues, for taking the necessary measures in the first two years of office to ensure that we eliminated the huge financial deficit that we inherited. The worst thing that we could possibly have for pensioners is a return to the high inflation and the boom-and-bust days that were presided over by his party's Government.
Mr. Dennis Skinner (Bolsover): Is my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister aware that, when all the glitz and the glamour of the Common Market and the summits and the rosy-eyed views have been removed, bosses still have power to sack workers? Did he bump into any of the Germans across there, and tell them that the British people are disgusted by the way in which BMW tore up all the so-called agreements that were started when the Tories were in power when they negotiated the Rover deal in the first place? Whatever happened to the social chapter and the mountain of legislation that is supposed to protect workers inside the Common Market? Will he tell BMW, if he has not told it already, that it is time that it operated in a totally different fashion? If it believes in togetherness, it should not have sacked those workers like it did, leaving us to try to pick up the pieces. If he did not do that, I hope that he will get on the blower immediately.
The Prime Minister: We certainly did, and we have repeated our concerns about BMW management's handling of this situation and our strong disagreement with the way in which the announcement was made. We have made that clear all the way through. It is worth pointing out that the German Chancellor also made clear on Saturday his disagreement with the way in which BMW handled the issue. We are living in a European market in which changes will be made, but the very
reason that we want to be part of the social chapter is to ensure that basic minimum standards in the workplace apply to people.
Mr. John Wilkinson (Ruislip-Northwood): Are not the bland words in section 3 of the communique on the western Balkans belied by the dire report of Secretary- General Solana and Commissioner Patten on the situation in Kosovo? Will not the Government and their European partners have to make up their minds whether to get more deeply involved in the military task of containing the growing insecurity in Kosovo or to get out?
The Prime Minister: The conclusions welcomed the paper by Solana and the European Commission, so I do not believe that they were bland. The very purpose of raising the issue in that way was to ensure that Europe co-ordinates its assistance better.
There will inevitably be problems sorting out an issue such as Kosovo, especially given the wider problems in the Balkans. However, the alternative--a policy of disengagement--would be disastrous. It would destabilise the entire region, and lead to renewed bouts not just of ethnic conflict, but of ethnic war, into which we would inevitably be drawn back. That is why I took the view from the very beginning that we had to become engaged with the conflict. We shall see the peace through in the same way that we saw the conflict through.
Mr. Ben Bradshaw (Exeter): Is my right hon. Friend aware of the other comments made by the German Chancellor at the weekend, when he said that the
liberalisation and deregulation achieved at Lisbon would not have been possible without the leadership shown by the British Government? Does my right hon. Friend agree that the best proof that Lisbon was a success is the deafening silence about the summit among the anti-European British newspapers?
The Prime Minister: The summit showed that, with a positive attitude in Europe, Britain can be successful. I hope that we carry on learning that lesson.
Mr. David Chidgey (Eastleigh): In the Prime Minister's discussions about security and stability in the Balkans, did he touch on the acute problem of the shortage of law-enforcement officers in Kosovo? Was he made aware of the high regard in which British police officers working on secondment there are held? British officers lack of firearms training means that there is a great shortage of them, although the authorities in Kosovo say that they would be more than happy to provide that training because they value the officers' skills so highly. Will the Prime Minister revisit the matter and make more British police officers available to restore peace in Kosovo?
The Prime Minister: We are doing what we can, and we have already doubled the contingent of British police officers in Kosovo. I understand what the hon. Gentleman says about firearms training, although I think that the matter is a little more complicated. However, we are also providing additional help to crack organised crime. We are giving a range of help and we stand ready to do more, but that help has to be given in conjunction with the authorities in Kosovo.
Points of Order
4.22 pm
Mrs. Angela Browning (Tiverton and Honiton): On a point of order, Madam Speaker. Have you received a request from the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry to come to the House and report the progress made in the various meetings that he has held over the past 10 days on the subject of Rover? You will know that the right hon. Gentleman was due to open this afternoon's debate on the Budget but, because the Government have withdrawn him, there will now be no Budget debate dedicated to business and industry. Are you able to use your influence to ensure that the House is kept apprised of this matter, which is very important, especially in the midlands?
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