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Mr. Boswell: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his kind remarks about my article and for doing me the courtesy of reading it.
Is it not true that staff governors have been reintroduced under the current legislation? It would thus not have been impossible to include them previously. Will the hon. Gentleman tell the House what additional democratic control is imparted by the proposed legislation to a situation about which he has already expressed concern because of the alleged democratic deficit after the 1992 Act?
Mr. Foster:
My point about the hon. Gentleman's article is that it is a bit rich for him to decry the democratic deficit when he was party to its creation. I accept that the current legislation allows for staff governors, but colleges' interpretation of it enabled them to get rid of such governors. The then Government were warned about that; for example, by my former union NATFHE--the National Association of Teachers in Further and Higher Education. However, those warnings went unheeded.
I want to press the Minister on consultation with teaching unions and teachers. Will the new LSCs be able directly to consult, nationally and locally, teaching professionals, so that their concerns are taken on board and so that some of the abuses of the past will not become future failures?
I hold regular meetings with the principals of sixth form colleges in the west midlands--organised by the excellent principal of Worcester sixth form college, John Tredwell. The principal of King Edward VI college, Nuneaton, drew my attention to a matter that affects voluntary-aided sixth forms. Will the Minister confirm that the Bill deals with the anomaly that voluntary-aided sixth forms do not have incorporated status? That holds them back; they are not able to borrow and invest in facilities.
In the article to which I referred earlier, the hon. Member for Daventry wrote:
I was disappointed by the remarks made by the hon. Member for Maidenhead (Mrs. May). She mentioned grammar schools and section 28, but she did not mention the current position of lifelong learning and educational achievements in the UK. No wonder--it makes depressing reading. The hon. Lady did not mention the 7 million adults who have no qualifications at all. Not once did she make a point about the one in five adults with numeracy and literacy problems, nor about the 170,000 16 to 18-year-olds who are not in education or training and who do not have a job. The delivery of the hon. Lady's speech and the points on which she concentrated were wide of the mark in a debate on such an important Bill.
Those target groups are the ones it is most important to recruit for lifelong learning. During the past few years, marketing efforts have not been directed at those groups, but at those who already participate in education. I have seen at first hand the glossy prospectuses and the endorsing advertisements and leaflets that colleges produce. Indeed, as a course director, I have produced many myself. They were designed to show what a wonderful college I taught at, what great staff we were and how much students would learn from studying our courses.
All that was true. However, the marketing did not seek to address the need that I have described of the many; it served the self-interest of the few. I do not blame teachers and colleges for that. The demand-led funding formula, post-incorporation, drove colleges in that direction when their core funding was cut from them. It is now the job of those marketing skills to be turned away from competition and towards widening participation.
The Government have set a challenging target of increasing student numbers by 800,000. That represents a massive extension in the availability of education and training. However, given the position that I outlined earlier, that number is only a fraction of those in the target group.
I wish to draw to my hon. Friend the Minister's attention a case of successful lifelong learning. Last week, I visited Jaguar cars to see the Jaguar employee development programme, which has run since 1993. I met staff and workers, and I am grateful for the time and effort that they put in. In particular, I met people such as Ken Wilson who have made the scheme work. It is run along the lines of the Ford employee development programme, with employees offered funding if they wish to undertake education, training or development in their own time. Courses on offer for hourly-paid workers include advanced car driving, bricklaying, computing, degree and Business and Technology Education Council courses, electronics, languages, supervisory management, teaching certificates and welding.
It was reassuring to hear from the workers that reskilling works. Workers who started with no qualifications whatever have successfully completed their degrees and are now considering whether to take a master's course. I have always believed that if people get a successful taste of education--at whatever level they start--they will be attracted to lifelong learning. The workers whom I met last week and the evidence that they supplied me with totally confirm that view. The scheme is clearly a success. It is supported by the company and the trade unions, and it is worthy of Ministers' attention.
It is increasingly obvious that lifelong learning will not be formal classroom-based learning, but will be done at the time, the place and the point of access that workers need. That presents new challenges that the Bill, with its emphasis on partnership and collaboration, is well placed to deliver.
One challenge ahead of us is to improve not only the quantity, but the quality of provision. Professionalism and the highest standards possible must apply to all providers of education. The discussions surrounding a mandatory teaching qualification for all further education teachers are welcome--I speak as one myself--but it should be extended to all providers. I would like the Minister to assure the House on that.
In addition, there is a role for a professional body for those delivering lifelong learning. It should sit alongside the General Teaching Council and the Institute for Learning and Teaching for higher education. I have interviewed Lord Puttnam and I know that he will make a wonderful advocate for teachers. Lifelong learning needs a similar advocate with the same views about education.
It would be remiss of me not to mention salaries in further education. I am genuinely concerned that the salaries of FE staff should not fall behind those of lecturers in higher education or teachers in schools. If FE is going to deliver top-quality teaching, we will need high-quality teachers who are rewarded properly. In return, they should seek to deliver continually improving teaching.
Returning to partnerships, collaboration offers students a broad curriculum, with more courses and subject combinations. Courses can be provided more economically, particularly with regard to small classes. On the subject of class sizes and the Opposition's concern about sixth forms, I should like the Minister to give assurances on the relationship between school sixth forms and sixth form and further education colleges. In my experience, schools with sixth forms have not been particularly keen to allow colleges access to potential students--those who are in year 11.
Mr. Boswell:
I appreciate the hon. Gentleman's courtesy in allowing me to intervene again. Does he agree that one of the most important factors in brokering what is always a very sensitive relationship between co-existing sixth forms and colleges is access to independent guidance? It is particularly important that all young people have the opportunity to receive independent, out-of-school advice on the best life choices for them so that they can make that decision for themselves.
Mr. Foster:
I do not disagree with anything that the hon. Gentleman has said, but numerous complaints were
Mr. Rowlands:
My hon. Friend has touched on an important point, and I am listening with great care. The key is to remove the funding distortions, which in many ways determine choice and lead to defensive arrangements as between schools and colleges.
Mr. Foster:
The Government have given assurances and sought to tackle issues concerning the funding disparity between sixth forms in schools and sixth form colleges.
Our major single concern is that . . . it--
the Bill--
may further increase bureaucratic pressures on those actually teaching and swallow up some of their funding.
The LSCs replace three funding systems and more than 250 funding bodies by one route. That is hardly a sign of greater bureaucracy. The reforms will free up savings of
at least £50 million a year--money that will be spent on learners. If the hon. Gentleman wants evidence of extra bureaucracy, he should ask colleges the following question: how many human resource managers, college accountants, property managers and administrative staff were based in colleges before incorporation, and what was the number afterwards? If Conservative Members are really so worried about bureaucracy, why has it taken them about eight years to notice it?
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