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Mr. Rooker: I must make it absolutely clear that I cannot answer most of the questions that I have been asked. We do not have the scheme yet. It is in the first stages of being designed. We have only just chosen one of the options that we considered. It is not possible to answer the detailed questions that I have been asked.
I shall certainly not use the term "shortly" about any regulations, because I can tell the House that they are not expected shortly. As I said at Question Time, I am not even certain whether they will be introduced before the summer recess or in the autumn--the time scale is as wide as that. They might not be the ideal legislation for the House to consider in, for example, the third week of July, so we might hold them over.
Mrs. Lait:
Can I tempt the right hon. Gentleman to say that they will be introduced before October 2002?
Mr. Rooker:
Yes, I can definitely say that. If the hon. Lady reads new clause 38 in great detail, she will see that every conceivable contingency--or at least every one that we can think of--has been built into that new clause. However, I cannot answer all the questions.
The hon. Member for Northavon (Mr. Webb) asked me about the figure of £7 billion referred to at Question Time. That is the cost of paying the surviving spouses of all current pensioners 100 per cent. with no policy deferral. The new clause includes the scope to defer for those currently under pension age. All the figures that I am using are global--they have to be--and the only figures that I am prepared to rely on are those on page 39 of the National Audit Office report, because the NAO used our figures to make assumptions. I shall not go into detail about those assumptions now.
I have honestly admitted that I cannot answer the questions asked, for reasons that I have explained. None the less, I hope that the House will accept new clause 38.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause read a Second time, and added to the Bill.
Brought up, and read the First time.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Social Security (Angela Eagle):
I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.
Mr. Deputy Speaker:
With this it will be convenient to discuss Government amendments Nos. 34, 35, 28 to 32 and 85.
Angela Eagle:
The House will be aware that we tabled a number of amendments in Committee relating to the calculation of state second pension and to SERPS. We tabled those amendments in Committee to ensure that time was allowed for adequate scrutiny of the clauses, but the result was that, in some cases, the provisions were not quite right when they were introduced. I explained in Committee that it would be necessary to table some minor amendments to correct or clarify the provisions. The group of amendments makes the necessary changes. I assure the House that the amendments do not represent major changes to the policy and that they are all beneficial to future recipients.
Amendments Nos. 28 and 29 are drafting amendments that clarify the legislation in relation to the calculation of national insurance rebates. They make it clear that the rebates must be calculated by reference to the state second pension given up, either wholly or in part.
We come to the technical subject of earnings factors in SERPS and to amendments Nos. 30 to 32 to clause 36. In Committee, we pointed out that clause 36 was, in effect, a consequential amendment to the Pensions Act 1995, which had been missed at the time it was passed. Among other things, that Act changed the calculation of SERPS from 6 April 2000. However, the regulations that dealt
with part years--that is, years in which people have a mix of both contracted-out and contracted-in earnings--were not changed to reflect the new Act.
The amendment agreed in Committee allowed us to introduce new regulations to put the situation right. However, since the current Bill will not be in force by 6 April 2000, it is necessary to ensure that the new regulations can deal with pension calculations that fall to be made between 6 April 2000 and the coming into force of the new regulations. That is the purpose of the latest amendments. The intention, as we discussed in Committee, remains to bring the regulations up to date and to maintain the status quo with regard to SERPS calculations.
Amendments Nos. 34 and 35 are technical; they correct the method of calculating the amount of state second pension that persons who, in the past, have received widowed parents allowance or bereavement allowance can inherit from their deceased spouse when they reach state pension age. Similarly, new clause 33 and amendment No. 85 correct existing legislation for the purposes of calculating the amount of SERPS that can be inherited in those circumstances.
The new clause and the amendments would restore the policy intention that no one will receive less additional pension with their category B pension, which is based on their late spouse's contributions, than they would have done before the introduction of the new bereavement benefits. No one has been affected to date, because the new bereavement benefits are not due to come into effect until April 2001. With those assurances, I urge the House to accept the new clause and the amendments.
Question put and agreed to.
Clause read a Second time, and added to the Bill.
Brought up, and read the First time.
Motion made, and Question put, That the clause be read a Second time:--
' .--(1) In section 46 of the Social Security Contributions and Benefits Act 1992 (modifications of section 45 for calculating the additional pension in certain benefits), after subsection (2) there shall be inserted--
"(3) For the purpose of determining the additional pension falling to be calculated under section 45 above by virtue of section 48BB below in a case where the deceased spouse died under pensionable age, the following definition shall be substituted for the definition of "N" in section 45(4)(b) above--
"'N' =
(a) the number of tax years which begin after 5th April 1978 and end before the date when the deceased spouse dies, or
(b) the number of tax years in the period--
(i) beginning with the tax year in which the deceased spouse ('S') attained the age of 16 or, if later, 1978-79, and
(ii) ending immediately before the tax year in which S would have attained pensionable age if S had not died earlier,
whichever is the smaller number."
(2) In section 48BB of that Act (Category B retirement pension: entitlement by reference to benefits under section 39A or 39B) in subsection (5) for "section 46(2)" there shall be substituted "section 46(3)".
(3) In paragraph 5 of Schedule 8 to the Welfare Reform and Pensions Act 1999 (welfare benefits: minor and consequential amendments), sub-paragraph (b), and the word "and" immediately preceding it, shall be omitted.'.--[Angela Eagle.]
'In section 52 of the Welfare Reform and Pensions Act, subsections (1) and (2) shall be left out, and there shall be inserted--
"(1) The Secretary of State may by regulations make such provision as is authorised by subsection (2) and one or more of subsections (3) to (4),
(2) The regulations may provide for any prescribed provision of Part II of the Contributions and Benefits Act (contributory benefits) which relates to additional pension for widows or widowers to have effect, in relation to persons of any prescribed description (which shall include at least all those who had reached pensionable age on or before 5th April 2000), with such modifications as may be prescribed for securing--
(a) that any such additional pension, or
(b) in the case of any provision of Schedule 5 to that Act (increase of pension where entitlement is deferred), that any constituent element of an increase provided for by that Schedule,
is increased by such percentage as may be prescribed (which may be 100 per cent, and which shall be 100 per cent for any person who had reached pensionable age on or before 5th April 2000).".'.--[Mr. Webb.]
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