| Previous Section | Index | Home Page |
Dr. Tony Wright (Cannock Chase): Following the previous contribution, perhaps we can agree to get it all out of our system to start with--we might then have a serious discussion about some of the issues. It is tiresome to have to repeat the argument, but we are here because the previous Government did not introduce a freedom of information Bill. We are here because, even after the Scott report, they refused to introduce such a Bill. We are here because, even though a Select Committee with a Government majority in the previous Parliament recommended such a Bill, they still refused to introduce one, so let us get that out of the way to start with.
Mr. Quentin Davies: I much resent the hon. Gentleman saying that my remarks should be put out of the way and then referring to the previous Government's record. I was one of those who lobbied hard during their time in office for a freedom of information Bill. We got the very inadequate compromise of the non-statutory code. He may remember that I and my hon. Friend the Member for Aldridge-Brownhills (Mr. Shepherd) were among those who refused to support the previous Government. Indeed, we voted against them on the Scott report, so the hon. Gentleman's remarks about several of us on the Conservative Benches are distinctly offside.
Dr. Wright: I pay warm and singular--or perhaps plural--tribute to the hon. Members who behaved in the
way that the hon. Gentleman describes in the previous Parliament. I have mentioned that on many occasions in the House. Unfortunately, there were not enough of them to persuade their colleagues to do the decent thing. The record is clear. I was prompted to mention it only because of the way he introduced his remarks, but it would be helpful to put all that to one side and concentrate on the matters at hand.
There is a genuine mystery about why the Government have been so reluctant to proceed on purpose clauses. Had I been able to pick out an example on which I would have thought them most happy to move, it would have been that. A form of words--a declaration--at the beginning of the Bill would have indicated a direction and an intention, and the cost to them would not have been much beyond that. Why have we not made more progress? A Committee of this House and a Committee of the House of Lords have considered the matter, and the overwhelming evidence from all directions is that purpose clauses would be useful. Overseas examples showed that, and we were able to give examples of domestic legislation in which they have been used, although they are not common.
We took devastating evidence from a number of sources. Perhaps the most devastating came from Lord Woolf, who is quoted in the Public Administration Committee report:
The Bill, in all kinds of examples, requires people to exercise discretion in respect of weighing whether there is a public interest in disclosure. The purpose clause has been discussed in relation to the Information Commissioner or the tribunal or a possible court, but it would have most impact in changing the culture of public bodies and departments and the way in which officials think. The one universal opinion from around the world on the introduction of legislation of this kind is that the change of culture has been the most important consequence. That was said to me in Australia and New Zealand. If one wants to change a culture, one has to say that one is engaged in a cultural change. That is profoundly important.
The culture of secrecy in this country has become a dreadful cliche, but it goes deep and wide in the public service because that is what it has been brought up on. With respect to the Minister, if a Government are saying, "We genuinely want to change all that", that is not a gloss but a profound and intended change of direction. We are asking public officials to balance withholding against disclosure in a way that they are not accustomed to, and stating at the beginning of the Bill where that balance is to be struck, wherever possible, would represent not simply a form of words but the animation of the exercise's
intention. That would send out a signal to people in every department in every public body as to what the Bill is about, what the Government intend and how the balancing exercise has to be carried out.
Mr. Richard Shepherd (Aldridge-Brownhills):
I am happy to follow the distinguished Chairman of the Public Administration Committee--the hon. Member for Cannock Chase (Dr. Wright)--and I shall not bicker with him too much about what happened to a White Paper that never came into existence. However, my hon. Friend the Member for Grantham and Stamford (Mr. Davies) was right to point out that the expectations as expressed in that White Paper were held by many Labour Members of Parliament. That is important; it was not just the extraordinary work of the right hon. Member for South Shields (Dr. Clark). We must remember that the White Paper was signed by the Prime Minister and approved by the Cabinet. The world and his wife would like to know what happened between that great expression--sought by many for a long time--and the Bill.
A purpose clause was one of the central reforms called for in Committee. Amendment No. 100 and new clause 1 are important for the reasons adduced by other right hon. and hon. Members. If I had to choose between the two provisions, I would argue for the new clause, because it sets out the key principles behind the reasons why we need and want freedom of information in this country.
The new clause states:
In that context, I have often quoted Pope to the House:
There is an innate secrecy--no doubt, a culture formed by two world wars--and a climate formed by the fact that sections of the Official Secrets Acts marched through the life of our nation for most of the 20th century. We want to reverse those principles. Why are we the most backward of the advanced democracies--ancient and considerate of liberties and so on--in continuing to want secrecy in the conduct of public business? That has consequences for us all.
The accountability of public authorities and those who hold office in them is an important interest. It certainly informed the White Paper, the Prime Minister's speeches before the election and much of the passion in the House.
The second reason for the right to information under the new clause is
The new clause would have the benefit, which the Government claim to want, of making the public more generally educated as to what government is about. Why do we have a Government? What are the difficulties that confront them? What is the purpose of public society in general? As previously set out, the aims for the Bill were consonant with the Government's arguments of not so long ago, with the White Paper and, I think, with what every freedom of information Act strives for. The White Paper was such that it inspired the commissioner in Canada to say that the Government's proposals left Canada trailing in Britain's dust. Now that claim is simply risible and the Bill, as an end product, appears to be a deceit. It is designed to defeat the very purposes that we understood were the Government's intent when they introduced such an important Bill.
All the arguments that I heard in the Select Committee on Public Administration, under the distinguished chairmanship of the hon. Member for Cannock Chase, were for a purpose clause. We heard from Elizabeth France, whose views are not to be put lightly to one side because she is commissioned with the job of data protection, not freedom of information. How do we weigh this matter? Should it be completely consumed in the protection and privacy provisions? We need a public interest provision, but we need a foundation that helps to guide people in their interpretation of the Bill and assists them in understanding the purpose that lies behind it.
Many of the phrases in the new clause derive from New Zealand's experience of freedom of information and from its Act. Eagles, Taggart and Liddell have written an important book, "Freedom of Information in New Zealand", in which they observe that the purpose provision
As I understand it, one of the things that the Government is seeking to do, and on which they should be complimented, is they are seeking to change the culture with regard to freedom of information and I think that in that sort of situation a signpost at the beginning as to the general intent of the legislation can be very important.
Quite simply, that is the point. A signpost at the beginning, as described by Lord Woolf, can be immensely important--my hon. Friend the Member for Stoke- on-Trent, Central (Mr. Fisher) got close to getting this just right--because so much depends on discretion and on judgment.
The purposes of this Act are to extend progressively the right of the public to information held by public authorities.
It lists four reasons why that right is needed. The first is the accountability of public authorities, which is one of the most important justifications for freedom of information.
What can we reason, but from what we know?
How can we reason if we do not know the substance or the essence of the issues that confront our public policy? As the Prime Minister pointed out, the Bill is about the stakeholder--about the relationship between the Government and the governed. That is an extraordinarily important proposition.
informed public debate on public affairs.
I might almost call that an Alastair Campbell provision, because he constantly calls for informed public debate. Unfortunately, few of us live up to his standards of what is constituted by such debate. By and large, it is true that Governments do not fear ill-informed, uninformed or off-the-issue public debate, because they are the masters of information. What they find more difficult is equality of argument--where people are apprised of information available to the Government and there is thus reasoned, intelligent questioning and proper argument as to the best course for public affairs. That is why the right hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross (Mr. Maclennan) supported the new clause: it will enable certain purposes.
ensured that the number, tenor and the generality of the exemptions would not overshadow the raison d'etre of the Act.
The truth is that the Bill contains a strikingly huge number of exemptions, which eat away at the very principle of making available the information that is in the Government's gift. It is therefore important that we signal the tenor and the purpose of the Bill, so that those who interpret it do so in the understanding that the House of Commons sought to make available information and that the public interest lies in the availability of information rather than in its concealment.
| Next Section
| Index | Home Page |