House of Commons
Wednesday 12 April 2000
The House met at half-past Two o'clock
PRAYERS
[Madam Speaker in the Chair]
PRIVATE BUSINESS
City of London (Ward Elections) Bill (By Order).
Order for further consideration, as amended, read.
To be further considered on Wednesday 19 April.
Oral Answers to Questions
NORTHERN IRELAND
The Secretary of State was asked--
Education Funding
1. Mr. Roy Beggs (East Antrim): How Northern Ireland schools and colleges will benefit from the additional funding for education announced by the Chancellor of the Exchequer; and if he will make a statement. [117340]
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr. George Howarth): As you are aware, Madam Speaker, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State cannot be here today, because he is attending the Queen at Hillsborough as she awards the George Cross to the Royal Ulster Constabulary. I am sure the whole House will join me in welcoming that honour: it is richly deserved, given the RUC's dedication and courage, and a fitting tribute to the 302 officers who have lost their lives.
I announced on 6 April that additional resources totalling £14.7 million were being distributed to primary, post-primary and special schools for the current financial year, largely on the basis of pupil numbers. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State is consulting Northern Ireland political parties on how further resources might be deployed, and I hope to be able to make a further announcement shortly.
Mr. Beggs: I echo the Minister's opening remarks, and thank him for his reply. I regret to say, however, that the additional funds will not solve the problems in Northern Ireland. School governors throughout the Province experience great difficulty in managing within their budget allocations, especially when teachers are on the top salary scales. Many well-managed schools are in deficit for the first time, and are cutting the services that
they used to provide for pupils. Will the Minister further review funding for our schools, and undertake to meet the full cost of teacher salaries at each school?
Mr. Howarth: As the hon. Gentleman knows, the sum to which I referred is the additional amount earmarked specifically for schools in the Chancellor's Budget statement, and it will go directly to them. The hon. Gentleman will probably also know that an extra £18.8 million is to be distributed across the public services in Northern Ireland. He will be aware that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State is consulting party leaders on where priorities should lie with regard to the extra money, and I am sure that what he has said, as well as other competing demands, will be taken into account.
Mr. Kevin McNamara (Hull, North): I join my hon. Friend in congratulating the RUC, and those members of it who have impartially upheld the rule of law over the past 30 years. Is he aware, however, that beneath that umbrella of congratulations are those who stood idly by while Belfast was burned and the ghettos were bombed, and those for whom a former Secretary of State and Attorney-General had to use the royal prerogative to prevent them from being prosecuted for perverting the course of justice--
Madam Speaker: Order. Has the hon. Gentleman a question that relates to the substantive question on the Order Paper, on education? If so, I should be pleased to hear it.
Mr. McNamara: I have, Madam Speaker; but, given my hon. Friend's introduction, and given that Robert Hamill was kicked to death in the presence of RUC officers who did not intervene, it must be seen that the award is a matter of controversy. While we applaud all RUC members who impartially uphold the rule of law, those who did not should not be covered by that.
As for the substantive question, will my hon. Friend arrange for schools to publish the details of how they are spending the extra money? There is concern about that.
Mr. Howarth: Schools will, of course, be asked to account for the £14.7 million. However, the reason why we gave the money directly to schools was to enable them to decide for themselves what their priorities should be. Although we hold them accountable for the way in which they spend public money, it would not be appropriate at this point for us to direct their resources. As for the additional expenditure, it will be in line with the public spending priorities set by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State, following consultation on what those priorities should be.
Mr. John Bercow (Buckingham): Has the spending increase proposed for Northern Ireland been subjected to the same double and triple counting by Government as has applied in relation to both England and Wales?
Mr. Howarth: As the hon. Gentleman's premise is entirely false, it would be inappropriate for me to answer in terms.
Executive
2. Mr. Tim Boswell (Daventry): What progress has been made in re-establishing the Northern Ireland Executive. [117372]
5. Mr. Desmond Swayne (New Forest, West): What progress has been made in re-establishing the Northern Ireland Executive. [117375]
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr. George Howarth): We are currently engaged in discussions with the Irish Government and the Northern Ireland political parties to agree on a way forward that will enable the Executive and other institutions to be restored as soon as possible. Our aim is to achieve an understanding that will provide the cross-community confidence that is necessary to enable the restored institutions to work effectively for the benefit of all people in Northern Ireland.
Mr. Boswell: I thank the Minister for his response, but may I ask him for two parallel and linked assurances? First, will he assure us that he and his right hon. Friend the Secretary of State will be tireless in exploring all avenues that might lead to the re-establishment of the Executive? Secondly, will he assure us that he will not seek to involve any persons who have not been able to establish, by their actions as well as their words, that they are genuinely committed to a peaceful solution?
Mr. Howarth: On the first part of the hon. Gentleman's question, of course the Secretary of State and I, and our colleagues in the Government of the Republic of Ireland, are deeply committed to that. No stone will be left unturned as we try to find out how we can progress matters. I know that there is, if not complete support, then wide support throughout the House for that position. The coming weeks will be difficult; no one pretends otherwise--but I still believe that, with good will and above all some understanding for everyone's position, there is an opportunity for us to achieve something.
It is important that everyone, including those who have links with terrorist organisations, or who have had such links in the past, understand clearly that the only way forward involves no violence, but instead, politics. Through politics, we can make it work. Through violence, the only way is backwards.
Mr. Swayne: Given that the Executive failed because of the inability to secure meaningful decommissioning, does the hon. Gentleman agree that the Executive cannot be re-established until decommissioning is achieved? If that is the case, is he sure of the wisdom of his policy of continuing prisoner releases, because those prisoners might be the leverage by which he would achieve the decommissioning necessary?
Mr. Howarth: The hon. Gentleman is aware that prisoner releases is a difficult issue. The issue has been difficult for everyone to deal with and to face up to, but in the agreement there is no direct link between prisoner releases and decommissioning.
The Secretary of State rightly takes the view that prisoner releases will be judged on the merit of each case and on the basis of the prevailing security circumstances at any given time, but the hon. Gentleman made a fair point within his question. If we want politics to work, private armies must be removed from the equation.
Decommissioning is still most likely to happen in the context of the implementation of the whole agreement, including the restoration of the institutions. That, in its turn, is most likely to happen if there is genuine confidence on everyone's part that decommissioning will happen in good time and that the threat of violence has been removed for good. Only the IRA can create the confidence by making the position clear with an unmistakeable signal of peaceful intentions. I hope that it will do that.
Mrs. Maria Fyfe (Glasgow, Maryhill): As too many people would like the Good Friday agreement to be dead, and numerous people fear that it may be, can my hon. Friend give any reassurance based on discussions that he has had with the Government of the Republic of Ireland?
Mr. Howarth: It is important that we emphasise that the Government of the Republic of Ireland are a very important partner in the undertaking. We keep close contact with them and respect very much their input to the process.
My hon. Friend makes the point that some people would like the process to fail. I have no doubt at all that she is right, but, by the same token, no one in Northern Ireland wants to go back to the situation before the peace process started and before the Good Friday agreement.
It is my view that most people in Northern Ireland, and, indeed, in the House, have too much invested and too much to lose if the process fails. I believe that most people of good will want the process to work and to move forward. I just hope that, over the coming days and weeks, we can find a way to make that happen.
Mr. Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Hall Green): Does my hon. Friend agree that the re-establishment of the Executive will require community-wide support from all sections of Northern Ireland society? To that end, does he welcome last week's ecumenical initiative from the Churches in Northern Ireland, which, I understand, met representatives of the Ulster Unionists and Sinn Fein? May I ask the Government to continue to encourage and to support all such genuine community initiatives to find a way forward in the peace process?
Mr. Howarth: My hon. Friend is right. At the end of the day, the understanding that is needed will happen because of cross-community confidence-building measures. We will, ultimately, get a solution through politics. At the same time, however, any pressure, help or new incentives that can be applied in the situation by Churches and other groups in the community are always to be welcomed. I believe that it is very important that the whole society of Northern Ireland make it clear, by whatever means are available to them, that they want to move forwards, not backwards.
Mr. Lembit Öpik (Montgomeryshire): Will Ministers be convening formal round table negotiations with the
political parties in Northern Ireland before the end of April? In that context, how significant does the hon. Gentleman feel that the 22 May deadline is?
Mr. Howarth: We are using a variety of meeting formats, including round table discussions. There has already been one round table meeting of all the pro-agreement parties, to talk about how we can move forward. We certainly would not rule out using that medium again. However, other ways need to be explored--including bilateral discussions between us and the Government of the Republic of Ireland, and meetings with individual political parties. All those methods have been employed in recent weeks, and we shall continue to employ them as and when it is appropriate to do so. Of course 22 May is still a significant deadline, as it had certain actions attached to it.
As I said a few moments ago, however, it is important that we get some sort of agreement that recognises that all the issues that come under the heading of the Good Friday agreement can be resolved. At this stage, I want to use dates not as barriers, but as targets. If we can have that type of understanding, it is possible that we can get people together and understand what is necessary to get this whole process back on track.
Mr. Robert McCartney (North Down): Does the Minister accept that no institution of Government properly described as democratic can include the political representatives of an armed terrorist group that is determined to remain armed? Does he accept that there is absolutely no evidence of any type that the IRA has shown any intention whatever of disarming?
Mr. Howarth: It is very kind of the hon. and learned Gentleman to strike a constructive note in these discussions. As I said a few moments ago, if we want politics to work, private armies have to be removed from the equation. Our objective is to bring not only the IRA but other paramilitary groups who profess support for the Good Friday agreement to a point of understanding, so that guns, bombs and violence are taken out of the equation for the future. If we can achieve that--replacing what has gone before with proper politics and with devolution, whereby local people make local decisions about local services--it has to be progress. That is what we want to achieve. I hope that all people of good will--politicians and others--in Northern Ireland will come to see that that is the only way forward.
Mr. Andrew MacKay (Bracknell): Will the Minister straightforwardly confirm that it is incompatible with our parliamentary democracy for those who are inextricably linked to paramilitaries who have singularly failed to decommission any illegally held arms or explosives to be Ministers in the Executive?
Mr. Howarth: Over the coming weeks--if it takes longer, it will take longer--we seek to achieve a situation in which those who are linked to paramilitaries make it absolutely clear and beyond doubt that that phase is over and that they are irreversibly in the phase of politics. The issue that therefore arises is whether, in the next few weeks, we can get a process going whereby everyone--including those who are in the Unionist party, who have to make very difficult decisions--is absolutely clear that
we are in a phase of politics, not a phase of terrorism. I hope that we can achieve that. If there is anything that I or the right hon. Gentleman can do, we should set out on that path.
Mr. MacKay: It appears that Government policy is moving. Will the Minister explain the fact that the Secretary of State said on 11 February when suspending the Executive:
- The blunt truth is that unless the issue of decommissioning is resolved, the Executive institutions cannot properly function whether formally suspended or not?
- I believe that we must think twice before linking decommissioning directly to the continuation of these institutions.
Mr. Howarth: Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman should heed the words of the right hon. Member for Upper Bann (Mr. Trimble), leader of the Ulster Unionists, who has made it clear that the Ulster Unionists need to feel confident that the decommissioning issue will be dealt with once and for all, that the threat will be gone and the weapons will be put beyond use. We and our colleagues in the Republic of Ireland are working towards that. It is what the right hon. Member for Upper Bann will need to persuade his colleagues back into the process of devolution, with an Executive running services that are directly relevant to Northern Ireland. I have explained the position and what we will work towards achieving.
Dr. Norman A. Godman (Greenock and Inverclyde): Let us hope for the early re-establishment of the Assembly and the Executive. Will my hon. Friend confirm that the Secretary of State, in his talks with representatives of the political parties, is actively engaging with the likes of Monica McWilliams, David Ervine, Gary McMichael and others who, in their different ways, have an important part to play in the peace process and the re-institution of the Executive and the Assembly?
Mr. Howarth: I can confirm that. Indeed, I have attended many meetings where all the parties, including the Northern Ireland Women's Coalition and other parties whose representatives were mentioned by my hon. Friend, were included in the process. We recognise entirely that it is not just the big parties, important though they are, that are part of the process; the small parties also signed up to the Good Friday agreement. We have every reason to include them and we shall continue to do so.
| Next Section
| Index | Home Page |