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Yvette Cooper: That is not a correct interpretation of the Government's position: we have made clear our opposition to euthanasia. We have also made it clear that current case law states that, if doctors, who have a duty of care, withdraw available treatment that is in the best interests of the patient, and that patient has not refused treatment, their action is unlawful. It is important that decisions in such circumstances are made in the best interests of the patient. From the beginning, one of the Government's concerns about the Bill is that it does not mention the best interests of the patient, or ensure that they are taken into account.
Charlotte Atkins: I should like some clarification in respect of new clause 10. Decisions of the sort that we are discussing are invariably taken in extremely distressing circumstances. The new clause would ensure that no prosecutions could be brought under the legislation without the consent of the Director of Public Prosecutions first being given. My concern as a mother, and as a daughter whose mother has died, is that that could introduce tremendous delay in proceedings. The families of the patients involved could find their agony extended by the requirement for the DPP's consent. Legal cases could go on for months and extend the agony, not only of the immediate family, but of friends of the patient. That is my real concern about the new clause. It is fine--
Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. The hon. Lady is trying to make a speech, not an intervention.
Yvette Cooper: My hon. Friend raises a serious question about new clause 10. The Government's view is
that new clauses 10 and 11 are not appropriate at this time, while our review of the issues of consent raised by the Law Commission is continuing. Hon. Members should reflect on that when deciding whether to support the new clause.The five new clauses raise important questions of clarification. Although they were intended to address some of the Bill's drafting flaws, which cause the Government great concern, they create as many problems as they were designed to resolve. The Government do not believe that any of the proposals satisfactorily answer our concern that the Bill would not achieve the aims set out for it by the hon. Member for Congleton.
Dr. Fox: To my deep regret, it now appears that the opponents of the Bill are likely to succeed in killing it. I therefore start by congratulating my hon. Friend the Member for Congleton (Mrs. Winterton) on the brave and tenacious way in which she has raised the issue and given it the prominence it deserves. Euthanasia is immoral, unethical and unacceptable, even if patients have given their consent. I fully agree with the Minister for Public Health in that respect.
The new clauses were not necessary for the Bill to make progress, and many red herrings were introduced, specifically to take up the time of the House. Although I accept that that is a legitimate way of conducting business in this place, people outside will increasingly fail to understand when such tactics are employed on major issues of public importance.
Mr. Miller: On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. If red herrings had been introduced, they would have been out of order. Surely that is not a correct interpretation of this morning's proceedings?
Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Alan Haselhurst): Anything that the Chair had heard that was out of order would have been so ruled. Anything that has not been ruled out of order will automatically, therefore, have been in order.
Dr. Fox: I rest my case, Mr. Deputy Speaker.
On new clause 10, the hon. Member for Hendon (Mr. Dismore) spoke about the involvement of the Director of Public Prosecutions, and gave what I thought was rather a strange defence of the new clause. He said that the DPP should be responsible for prosecutions whose legislative territory was political, which he defined as involving matters on which there was great contention between political parties. That would bring the DPP into almost every area of legislative territory, and politicise the role.
Mr. Dismore: The hon. Gentleman may have misunderstood my point. I was taking exception to new clause 11, because I believe that if an issue might be politically controversial, it should not be taken by the Attorney-General. That is not to say that the opposite is the case--that when a matter is not political, it must always be taken by the DPP. There are certain circumstances, which I outlined more fully in my speech, which support the argument for the DPP.
Dr. Fox: The difficulty in the hon. Gentleman's argument is the definition of the term "political". Such a difficult distinction was not helpful to the debate, and I am not sure that it was intended to be.
I was interested in what the Minister said, and I ask her to consider further some of the points raised on new clause 17. Much was made of the role of the press and the ability to prejudice a trial, whether on the basis of the Bill or otherwise, or to affect the reputation of a defendant or a witness. Much was said about what may happen to professional reputations as a result of such publicity.
I suggest to the Minister that professional reputations are not the only reputations that matter. Most of us would find it difficult to accept an artificial distinction between the protection of professional reputations in such a situation, and the protection of the reputations of members of the general public. If the Government are serious about considering the protection of defendants or witnesses, I hope that that point will be taken and the protection will apply to all members of the public equally, not disproportionately to some because they happen to be members of a particular profession.
Mr. Ashton: Will the hon. Gentleman clarify to the House whether he is replying on behalf of the official Opposition or expressing his own opinion?
Dr. Fox: In replying to the debate, I am largely expressing my own opinions, but I believe that they are shared by the vast majority of those who sit behind me. In fact, I can say with some certainty that they are shared by all those sitting around me now--[Laughter.]--all three of them.
The hon. Member for Bassetlaw (Mr. Ashton) spoke about the fear of publicity on the part of professionals and witnesses if cases were reported in the tabloid newspapers. He said that the issues had been considered at the highest judicial level and by the medical profession at the highest level, so it was not for us--the House, presumably--to question them.
However, the role of Parliament is to question all such matters. It is our role to decide what we as a Parliament want; it is then for the judiciary to interpret and for others to follow the rules that we set. Doctors do not always know best, as the hon. Gentleman claimed.
Much has been said about fear. However, as my hon. Friend the Member for Windsor (Mr. Trend) said, there are other fears to be considered--the fear felt by weak, elderly and vulnerable patients that decisions could be taken by members of the medical profession to withdraw treatment, which would result in death. Doctors do not always know best. Doctors do not all think in the same way, either. We need clear guidelines for the medical profession.
Parliament has a duty to consider and clarify such matters. We have failed to do that today, and it is now incumbent on the Government to act as a matter of urgency.
1.15 pm
Mr. Miller: I emphasise to the hon. Member for Woodspring (Dr. Fox) and to the hon. Member for Congleton (Mrs. Winterton)--who is often my hon. Friend when we deal with matters that relate to the best county in the country--that I resent the notion that those who have participated in the debate mean to wreck the Bill. It is not my intention; I am firmly opposed to euthanasia. I tabled several amendments aimed at improving the Bill. I want to place that on record to remove ambiguity.
I tabled new clause 9 solely to probe the issues that we are considering in this important debate on new clauses 10 and 11 and related matters. The debate has emphasised my serious anxieties about the logic of following the course outlined in those new clauses. I am not a lawyer, and I did not understand the relevance of the Director of Public Prosecutions or the Attorney-General in the context of the Bill. The debate on new clause 13 shows the difficulty that non-lawyers experience when considering such matters as tort--with the greatest respect to my long-standing hon. Friend the Member for Southampton, Test (Dr. Whitehead). Tort is an immensely difficult concept.
After listening to the debate, I have concluded that--to show some unanimity--I agree with the view in the briefing that the hon. Member for Congleton gave to the Bill's supporters. It was also expressed by my hon. Friend the Minister: new clauses 10 and 11 are wrong in principle. There is therefore some agreement on that. I am worried about the DPP's involvement, especially in the context of new clause 10. I am anxious that a junior in the ranks would deal with the matters that we are considering, and that the new clause would not have the effect that my hon. Friend the Member for Hendon (Mr. Dismore) sought.
I also agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Hendon that, if new clause 11 were accepted, political decisions might be made because the Attorney-General is a political appointment. I intervened on my hon. Friend the Member for Walthamstow (Mr. Gerrard) to stress the need for checks and balances. I tried to provide those checks and balances in new clause 9 when I included a provision to consult with other authorities. Considering whether the authorities listed in that new clause were the right ones is irrelevant, because it was not selected.
I listened carefully to the debate about tort, but I do not know whether I am any more enlightened. I therefore take a neutral position on that.
We are considering the Bill against a background of rapidly changing medical realities. Several hon. Members know that I lost my sister and my father in a relatively short time. Both survived illnesses for a long time that they could not have survived only a few years ago. Although--thank goodness--I, my family and the medical practitioners were never confronted with horrendously difficult decisions, an increasing number of people will be put in that position as it becomes technically possible to keep people alive. We have had a number of debates about the evolving science of genetics, which will also require us to return to these extremely difficult problems.
I am not totally at odds with the moral principle behind the Bill, but I have difficulty with the way in which, in absolute terms, it would put doctors and carers in hospices and in homes for those with Alzheimer's in an immensely difficult position, particularly because it does not seem to take the rights of families into account.
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