House of Commons
Tuesday 18 April 2000
The House met at half-past Two o'clock
PRAYERS
[Madam Speaker in the Chair]
PRIVATE BUSINESS
City of Newcastle Upon Tyne Bill [Lords]
To be read the Third time on Tuesday 2 May.
Greenham and Crookham Commons Bill
Order for Second Reading read.
To be read a Second time on Tuesday 2 May.
Oral Answers to Questions
SCOTLAND
The Secretary of State was asked--
Referendums
1. Mr. Desmond Swayne (New Forest, West): If he will make a statement on his powers in relation to the holding of referendums in Scotland. [118126]
The Secretary of State for Scotland (Dr. John Reid): I have no powers in relation to the holding of referendums in Scotland.
Mr. Swayne: The Scottish Parliament lacks the benefit of a second Chamber to keep it in touch with popular opinion on contentious and difficult matters. Will the Secretary of State take the powers in a short Bill to make greater use of referendums to make good that omission? Will he earn the lasting thanks of parents throughout Scotland, see off his rivals in the dismal Scottish Executive and perhaps bring some relief to nervous colleagues sitting behind him by announcing today that the first such referendum will be on section 28?
Dr. Reid: I know from previous exchanges that the hon. Gentleman does not fully understand the idea of devolution. I remind him that the point is to pass powers to other institutions, and not to decide to run those other institutions by decisions made here. Section 28 is a matter for the Scottish Executive. I am not sure that it is productive or useful for the hon. Gentleman to make his views known. The last time he did so, his views were so
intolerably extreme that they distressed even the Scottish Conservative party, which takes a bit of doing. Having agreed, after several years of debate, to give devolution to the Scottish Parliament and the Executive, we should allow them to get on with it.
Mr. David Stewart (Inverness, East, Nairn and Lochaber): Does the Secretary of State share my view that referendums are useful gauges of political opinion? If he were to hold a referendum among the business community in my constituency, it would be overwhelmingly in favour of the retention of assisted area status. Would the Secretary of State agree to meet me urgently to discuss that issue?
Dr. Reid: I congratulate my hon. Friend on his ingenuity in managing to make a plea for Inverness. I am aware that he is a doughty fighter for the interests of his constituency and its business community. I would be glad to meet him to discuss these matters during the consultation period.
Mr. Eric Forth (Bromley and Chislehurst): Does the Secretary of State agree that one of the great glories of our constitution is that nothing is irreversible? Will he keep an open mind on the possibility of arranging a further referendum in the future to give the people of Scotland the opportunity to say whether or not they regret their decision in the last referendum?
Dr. Reid: Our constitution has a number of great glories, one of which is the right hon. Member, who brings the House long hours and much amusement. Even the worst enemies of devolution would consider it a little premature to reverse in 10 months something it took 100 years to deliver.
Mr. Dominic Grieve (Beaconsfield): The Secretary of State will recollect that, before the last general election, the then Labour Opposition were keen on local referendums--such as the unofficial Strathclyde water referendum--to influence Government. In terms of the right hon. Gentleman's own reserved matters, does he think that he might have a referendum on whether the contracts for the ships at Govan should be commercial or military? That would allow an opportunity to nail the calumny put out by the Government that the commercial status is due to the last Government, as it is entirely the responsibility of his Government that that has come about.
Dr. Reid: Any opinion poll, representative sample or referendum held by an elected body is up to that elected body. The contracts for the ro-ro ferries were classified as commercial contracts under the advertisements put out in the European Gazette in January 1997, which even those with the urge to have collective amnesia about the last Government can remember was during the period of that Government. Rather than political point-scoring over Govan--particularly when the hon. Gentleman inevitably will score own goals, as he has just done--we would all be better served by concentrating our minds on the real issue, which is how we maintain a competitive and productive shipbuilding industry in this country, including at Govan.
Digital Transmission
2. Miss Anne Begg (Aberdeen, South): What steps he has taken to ensure that digital transmission is extended to the widest possible audience in Scotland before withdrawal of analogue transmission. [118127]
The Minister of State, Scotland Office (Mr. Brian Wilson): We will ensure that all those who currently receive the main free-to-air channels on analogue television can receive these channels digitally before analogue transmission ceases. The BBC and the Independent Television Commission, which are jointly responsible for the terrestrial television network, are now considering, in consultation with digital broadcasters, Government and others, how to develop the coverage of digital television across the UK.
Miss Begg: My hon. Friend will be well aware that some parts of Scotland at present do not even receive terrestrial analogue television and that reception is very poor in other areas. Will he reassure me and the people who live in those areas that they will not be forgotten again and left out of the digital revolution?
Mr. Wilson: I am very pleased to give my hon. Friend that assurance. The objective must be to do better than is done at present in terms of coverage. The period of transition can be used to develop the technology, for instance using satellites, to take digital reception into the small pockets that do not at present receive terrestrial television. It is also important to make the point that digital is about more than television, because it will also be increasingly important in education and commerce. It would be a real disadvantage to any area if it did not have access to digital television, quite apart from the inability to receive television pictures. We must try very hard and we must not limit our ambitions to replicate what exists at present. We must do better and we must achieve our aims sooner than the planned period of transition.
Mr. Alasdair Morgan (Galloway and Upper Nithsdale): Further to that reply, the Minister may be aware that some of my constituents can receive certain channels only from Northern Irish transmitters or from English transmitters, which may not be a problem during party political broadcasts but which certainly upsets people during football matches. Will he make representations to ensure that digital transmissions in Scotland come from Scottish transmitters?
Mr. Wilson: I remember the days when people travelled to places such as the hon. Gentleman's constituency to see football matches when they were denied to the rest of Scotland. The hon. Gentleman's point will be overtaken by technology, because digital will open up more choice. I hope that people in Scotland, and indeed in every part of the United Kingdom, will be able to see programmes that are generated from within Scotland as well as UK-generated programmes. In fact, that is the answer to dilemmas such as which version of "Newsnight" one wants to see. Perhaps I should get a plug
in, and suggest that with digital it is possible--and some might say desirable--to see the UK version of the programme for all 45 minutes.
Sir Robert Smith (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine): While I welcome some of the reassurances on the technical side, can the Minister assure the House that those who have to access digital transmissions by satellite will not face additional cost barriers? The Minister mentioned the greater diversity of digital television. Will he ensure that in any switch to digital television lessons are learned from the takeover of Grampian Television about the importance of regional diversity in the future of broadcasting and in its regulation?
Mr. Wilson: Like many other people who are familiar with Grampian Television and who remember the great patriotic battle that was fought for the north and north-east of Scotland to keep a separate channel for those areas, I have looked with some cynicism and regret at what has been done since in terms of selling the Grampian franchise to the Scottish Media Group and the disappearance of much of the distinctive identity of Grampian, not to mention many of the jobs associated with Grampian in both English and Gaelic programming.
I certainly hope that the Independent Television Commission will be vigilant on behalf of those concerned in the north and north-east of Scotland. The spread of digital should be about greater choice, more programmes and more channels, and it must protect regional identity. I hope that digital transmission will give rise to a separate Gaelic channel--something that I know the hon. Member for Argyll and Bute (Mrs. Michie) will approve--and that is one way in which digital television will be able to enhance choice.
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