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Mr. John Wilkinson (Ruislip-Northwood): Although the immediate environment around the United Kingdom may appear to be peaceful, things can change rapidly. In an era of expeditionary warfare, our armed forces need to be properly equipped and, above all, to have air superiority to be able to conduct any operations. In that regard, is it not imperative that the Eurofighter Typhoon aircraft be equipped with a gun as a standard fitting and that the gun is not simply bolted on as and when the circumstance requires?
Mr. Hoon: It is important that our forces are equipped to face the types of battles that they will face in the future. I suspect that the hon. Gentleman has relied on rather antiquated newspaper reports about the benefits of cannon in second world war dogfights. It is highly unlikely that aeroplanes as sophisticated as the Typhoon would be engaged in such contacts. Indeed, if they are engaged in a direct conflict with another aircraft, they will be equipped with very sophisticated missiles that will be the effective means by which they are successful.
Mr. Wilkinson: Will the Secretary of State bear in mind that all modern air operations--from Vietnam to
those in the middle east, particularly involving the Israeli air force--have demonstrated that the secondary armament of cannon is most important and that a residual dogfighting capability is necessary? Can he therefore quash rumours in the press that the Eurofighter Typhoon aircraft will be equipped only with air-to-air missiles? If he does not, there will be grave disquiet in informed circles.
Mr. Hoon: I have suggested that we assess the armaments that are required on a sophisticated aircraft according to the nature of the threat that it will face. In the modern world, to defeat an attack by an aircraft on equipment such as the Typhoon, the appropriate armament is a sophisticated air-to-air missile.
Mr. Iain Duncan Smith (Chingford and Woodford Green) rose--
Mr. Hoon: Notwithstanding the obvious impatience of Members, I cannot answer the precise question as to which missile will be made available to the Typhoon. However, I assure the House that there will be one.
Mr. Duncan Smith: I had not planned to intervene at this stage. However, as we are discussing this subject, it is perhaps a good point at which to clear the air. Whatever the rights or wrongs of the reports, will the Secretary of State undertake to reconsider the issue? As I understand it, the even more advanced F22 is designed with a cannon, which every air force that I am aware of considers to be a necessary part of its inventory. Unless the Royal Air Force is aware of a secret change to the threat, will the right hon. Gentleman reconsider the matter so that the issue does not rebound over the next few weeks in different reports in different newspapers?
Mr. Hoon: It would not rebound in different reports in different newspapers if there were sensible observation and comment on it. We keep these matters under constant review. We always ensure that our equipment is the best and that it is designed to deal with the sorts of threat that our armed forces face. We shall carefully examine the appropriate requirement.
Mr. Menzies Campbell: The Secretary of State is being generous in giving way. As he is talking about damaging and debilitating comment, can he dissociate himself from comments that are apparently attributed to the Chief Secretary to the Treasury, who appears to be approaching the issue of the choice of missile entirely from the point of view of economics, and not from that of capability?
Mr. Hoon: One of the things that I have learned in government is that I do not believe everything that I read in The Guardian. I would encourage the right hon. and learned Gentleman to follow my habit.
Mr. Ian Davidson (Glasgow, Pollok): May I pursue the point about damaging press comment? Is my right hon. Friend aware of the damage that has been caused in Scotland by the unfortunate comment from the Ministry of Defence that no British shipbuilding yard is capable of
building roll on/roll off ferries? That comment was not helpful and was presumably designed deliberately to undermine the United Kingdom offerings. Will my right hon. Friend make a clear statement that he believes that Govan Shipbuilders Ltd. on the Clyde is capable of building those ships?
Mr. Hoon: I am delighted to assure my hon. Friend that that is the position that the Ministry of Defence has adopted. There is no doubt about the capability of shipyards throughout the country to construct roll on/roll off ferries and to engage in the sophisticated programme of building about 30 warships that we are planning in future years. I shall be looking to British shipyards to supply ships to fulfil that exciting forward programme. I am confident that shipyards throughout the United Kingdom will benefit from the programme.
As I was saying, we benefit from stable democracy, good government and strong economic development. It is in our interest to see that stability established more widely. We also have a wider responsibility to those in less fortunate circumstances to help secure peace, stability and democracy, and to ensure, wherever we are able, the furtherance of basic human rights. There are many ways of doing that other than by resorting to military force. Diplomacy, aid and advice are crucial. Military action may ultimately be required. However, the military has an important role to play long before we reach the point where armed force becomes necessary.
A great deal of effort is put into what my predecessor termed "defence diplomacy". That is using our defence assets to build and promote stability and democracy by providing training, education and advice. That is an excellent example of the Government's approach. We are using our defence resources actively and with imagination to make long-term investments in peace and stability. We have provided additional funding to reflect the importance that we attach to these tasks. However, defence diplomacy can work effectively only in the process of joined-up government. The Ministry of Defence continues to work closely with the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and the Department for International Development to this end.
Success in this area is often unspectacular--successful diplomacy is often the story of the dog that did not bark. The measure of our success will largely be conflicts that did not happen and trouble that did not occur. However, we should not forget the positive aspects of defence diplomacy: increasing respect for democracy, human rights and the rule of law. Sometimes, unfortunately, diplomacy fails. Our commitment to the maintenance of civilised conduct in world affairs is put to the sternest test--our willingness and readiness to use military force.
No one should doubt the Government's determination to do what is necessary in times of crisis. This year, we plan to spend about £22.8 billion on defence. By any measure, that is a significant sum. We are spending every pound for a good reason. We are determined that Britain should have world-class armed forces with a mix of capabilities that allow us to be engaged and active on the world stage. These are armed forces that are capable of
deploying and sustaining themselves over long distances and capable, should the need arise, of war fighting at the most demanding level.
Mr. Quentin Davies (Grantham and Stamford): The Secretary of State says that he plans to spend £22.8 billion on defence. However, that budget will not cover his existing commitments, so he has had to cancel exercises and the cannon on the Typhoon. He has had to hold up procurement programmes and leave the Army without crucial spares, but it is still more than 8,000 service men and women below strength. Would he not be in more serious financial straits if he had those 8,000-plus troops?
Mr. Hoon: I shall deal with some of those points in due course. However, let me make clear to the House and the hon. Gentleman that we have no difficulty in fulfilling our commitments in a challenging programme. Previous Governments have always faced the fact that judgments about commitments have to be made, consistent with the amount of money that a country can afford at any given point in its history. That is always the case and, in the unlikely event of the hon. Gentleman occupying my position, he will have to face up to that with rather more sophistication than simply talking about needing more money or cutting commitments. Perhaps Opposition Members will explain what commitments they would cut, if that is how they would resolve the problem.
I shall shortly talk about our commitment to ensuring that Britain's forces are a force for good around the world.
Mr. Robathan: The right hon. Gentleman has mentioned defence commitments that we have trouble in fulfilling, and defence diplomacy. Given the situation in Zimbabwe, does he not think that having British soldiers run training schemes there probably sends the wrong message to the Government and people of Zimbabwe?
Mr. Hoon: It does not. British forces are present in Zimbabwe as part of a training force for southern Africa. Their responsibilities extend beyond Zimbabwe, where they have conducted sophisticated training that has benefited the Zimbabwean armed forces. If the hon. Gentleman has followed the situation in Zimbabwe carefully, he will know that the armed forces have continued to make a stable and mature contribution to Zimbabwean society, which may well have something to do with the training that they have received from British forces. There is therefore good news from Zimbabwe, and it is important to put that in the right context.
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