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Mr. Quentin Davies: Will the Minister give way?
Dr. Moonie: I really do not have time; I must try to reply to as many points as possible, so I apologise to the hon. Gentleman.
I am very well aware of the problems of the Churchill estate. I assure my hon. Friend the Member for Dumbarton that I shall try to ensure that the problems that have led to delays in transferring property to the local housing association will be solved in the very near future. My hon. Friend referred to the letter that he received on the organisation of facilities. We must recognise that General Cowans has put out a consultation document. I assure my hon. Friend that we shall listen to his concerns and try to address them.
I recognise that the right hon. Member for Bridgwater has long experience of the Ministry of Defence. I am aware of the attempts that he made--they were successful in the main--to handle the necessary reductions in expenditure and in the size of the forces. I think that the right hon. Friend would be honest enough to admit that there were some difficulties, particularly with the defence medical services, with which we are trying to deal. I accept that it was a difficult thing to do.
I do not think that the right hon. Gentleman conducted an exercise quite like the strategic defence review. Although the down-scaling produced successful results in the short term, it was largely a down-scaling of forces that remained focused on the same objectives as the larger forces previously. Perhaps that would have changed if the right hon. Gentleman had had enough time. I feel that we were left still focused on past objectives rather than those of the future. The SDR, whatever else may be said about it, is an attempt to focus on the future and our likely commitments.
I agree with the right hon. Gentleman about the value of intelligence. I shall refer to asymmetry and the difficulties that we face in coming to terms with it. Clearly, effective co-operation among intelligence services and a recognition of the problems, including electronic espionage and electronic destruction just for the hell of it, can play a part in disrupting a complex society.
Mr. Paul Tyler (North Cornwall): Will the Minister give way?
Dr. Moonie: No. I am sorry, I do not have time.
Defences have to change. When my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State was saying that we are no longer focused on the threats that had been our concern, he was of course referring to the threats of the past, not those of the future. Clearly effective action is needed to meet perceived threats.
The right hon. and learned Member for North-East Fife (Mr. Campbell) must recognise that the provision of missiles for Typhoon is a genuinely difficult argument between two competing systems. Much as we would like to have a decision in the near future, there are arguments to consider on both sides. It is not easy to weigh the relative merits of two competing systems, both of which have considerable advantages--[Interruption.] We have not yet made a decision. My right hon. Friend assures me that we shall be making it very soon. I have both hands in front of me; I do not have one tied up behind my back.
Mr. Menzies Campbell: We will promise to be a little more patient if the Minister promises that he will make the decision.
Dr. Moonie: Much as I enjoy the greatness that has been thrust upon me, it has not quite reached that level within the Ministry. Good points have been made about morale and our role in the world. The right hon. and learned Gentleman focused on the argument about more or better spending in Europe.
I have tried to cover Kosovo as much as possible. I do not have time to deal with Iraq, other than to say in passing that we are making attempts to underpin the safety of the people underneath the no-fly zones--the Kurds in the north and the Shias in the south--and we must recognise the legitimacy of the operation under UN resolutions, however difficult such long-term operations are. I accept what my hon. Friend the Member for Linlithgow (Mr. Dalyell) said about Kosovo and the problems that we have there. However difficult long-term operations may be, we must recognise that sometimes we have to take part in them, however unpleasant the consequences may be. Sometimes it is our duty to do so. That is certainly the position with the ones that we have been discussing today.
I shall spend a little more time on asymmetry and some of the threats which have been referred to, particularly by my hon. Friend the Member for Swansea, East (Mr. Anderson) and the right hon. Member for Tonbridge and Malling. We recognise the potential threat from chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear terrorism. The MOD is fully involved in activities that are designed to counter the threat, which are co-ordinated and led by the Home Office in this country and by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office abroad.
The strategy that we support is twofold. First, it is designed to disable threats, and secondly, to plan an effective response to any explosion or release of material that may occur. That would involve mobilising a wide range of services, including the police, fire and ambulance services, local authorities and health services. That important work is being effectively co-ordinated by Ministers in other Departments and I assure the right hon. Member for Tonbridge and Malling that the MOD provides practical support for both elements of the strategy and is closely involved in the planning of the overall response and the exercise programme designed to test the response.
All troops are now given training in handling dangerous situations and there is, of course, a regiment dedicated to such services, which we take very seriously. With decent intelligence and careful management, we hope to minimise such a risk to the country. As a doctor, I recognise that there are certain circumstances in which any form of attack could overwhelm any level of force put up to deal with it. We must be honest enough to accept that there are potential threats which, in the short term, would be impossible to tackle, but that does not alter the fact that we plan to handle them as effectively as possible.
The right hon. Gentleman made some specific points about Russia. We have shown tremendous willingness to help and, in the past, have provided practical and financial assistance for dealing with fissile materials. Recently, it was suggested that British Nuclear Fuels may be invited to help with safeguarding and destroying fissile materials. There is no better company in the world to deal with such materials, however much it has suffered recently as a result of one particular problem. We are world leaders in this field and should give Russia the benefit of our expertise as much as possible.
Avoiding leaching from fissile materials is a far more difficult problem to deal with at second hand. We are a member of all the export control regimes, including committees, the nuclear suppliers group and the Australia group: I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman is as familiar with them as I am. Those bodies depend on the good will of all the participants involved which, so far, they have had. However, we must accept that there is a danger of leaks which we must take the best precautions possible to prevent.
On the Defence Evaluation and Research Agency, my hon. Friend the Member for Dunfermline, West (Ms Squire) was, in many ways, speaking to the last person to whom she should be addressing her concerns. When I was in opposition, I dealt with the privatisation of the British Technology Group, which I opposed. Then, for my sins, I had to deal with the partial privatisation of AEA Technology. By that time, my views had changed
substantially and I came to recognise that there were good aspects of privatisation. I was, at worst, neutral and, at best, slightly in favour of it.I honestly believe that the legitimate concerns expressed by the Opposition are similar to those that I expressed when I dealt with the privatisation of AEA Technology. With proper work and effective separation of the two elements involved, one can provide for the necessary part of DERA to be kept within the public sector and for a potentially highly effective commercial company to be created from the remainder.
I accept that there are considerable concerns about potential job losses and threats to individuals' personal security, which will be addressed during the process that was discussed earlier. However, that does not affect the fact that, in principle, we have every chance of making privatisation an outstanding success for DERA and the country.
Having mentioned the right hon. Member for Wealden, I should, in the few minutes that are left, discuss the threats that he raised. His point about trade wars was especially interesting and, given that there are forces outwith our control, underlined the importance in defence diplomacy of Departments working across departmental boundaries to handle the pressure that can lead to conflict if it is not properly handled. Despite the underpinning principles of free trade and economic expansion, there is a role for the Department.
I shall end on that note. It is the small, unsung things we do that may have the largest effect on world peace and prosperity in the long term. I am sure that that is an objective of which we are all in favour.
It being Seven o'clock, the motion for the Adjournment of the House lapsed, without Question put.
Mr. Tyler: On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. As the Secretary of State for Defence is present, I should like to ask whether you have received any indication from him or from his colleagues about whether a statement will be made this evening about the serious potential danger to security posed by the e-mail virus known as the "love letter". Clearly, a Department of State must have been aware of the problem early this morning, yet, as far as I have been able to discover, no statement was made nor any warning given to other public services about the potential danger. Does the Secretary of State intend to make a statement telling us when his Department was made aware of the problem, whether other Departments had been informed of the severity of the situation, and whether there was any danger of the virus corrupting sensitive or operational computer systems in the Ministry of Defence?
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