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Mr. Byers: Given the hon. Lady's hostility to the principle of the national minimum wage, are we to take it that small firms will be exempt from paying their employees the national minimum wage? [Interruption.] We shall hear that comment in a second, I dare say. Four million people work in firms with fewer than 10 employees, but she cannot give them a guarantee that they will continue to be entitled to receive the national minimum wage. That is the Conservative threat to those on low incomes who receive the national minimum wage; the Opposition cannot guarantee that it will be retained.
The working time directive and entitlement to four weeks paid holiday a year are also under threat from Opposition policies. That should come as no surprise, because Conservative Members are concerned about red tape and bureaucratic burdens on business, not common decent standards.
Mr. Byers: I give way first to my hon. Friend the Member for Rotherham (Mr. MacShane).
Mr. MacShane: Is my right hon. Friend aware that one of the heaviest burdens faced by businesses in the United States and Europe is having to pay employees' health insurance costs? Are not some of the most sinister threats to the UK's business competitiveness the plans to privatise the national health service and impose health costs on all employers? The Opposition argue for that continually.
Mr. Byers: My hon. Friend makes an important point in his usual highly effective way.
Regulation involving red tape and administrative burdens is important and we shall take steps to deal with that.
Mr. Ian Bruce: What about the weak euro?
Mr. Byers: The hon. Gentleman asks about the euro, and it is time to address the single currency.
Mr. Nicholas Winterton (Macclesfield) rose--
Mr. Byers: I am sorry, I must get on to the single currency, about which many hon. Members feel strongly. However, before doing so, I shall give way to my hon. Friend the Member for Coventry, South (Mr. Cunningham).
Mr. Jim Cunningham: Does my right hon. Friend agree with my interpretation of the silence on the minimum wage of the hon. Member for Tiverton and Honiton: that a future Tory Government would return people in my constituency to working for £1 an hour? Is that what she is really saying by her silence?
Mr. Byers: The implication of the hon. Lady's position is exactly that. My hon. Friend makes a significant point
about the threat that will hang over people who receive the national minimum wage in the event of a Conservative Government.
Mr. Byers: I have a difficulty; I know that the hon. Member for Macclesfield wants to intervene, so I shall give way to him first.
Mr. Nicholas Winterton: The Secretary of State is coming to the single currency and the euro. Will he comment on remarks made to me only a little earlier today by a very senior executive of Nortel, the highly profitable electronics company that employs more than 11,000 people in this country and wants to employ several hundred more? He said to me, "My company isn't that concerned about the strength of sterling. We are concerned about the over-regulation in Europe and the high social costs in Germany and France. May I make a plea to you to urge the Government not to go down the path of Germany and France? We want a light hand of taxation and of regulation. Given that, we will continue to expand in the UK." That is rather different to the case that the Secretary of State quoted of Massey Ferguson.
Mr. Byers: I was almost distracted by the hon. Gentleman's pound lapel badge glinting in the light. The gentleman from Nortel makes a strong point. There is no doubt that a Europe based on regulation, directives and negative attempts to control is not the Europe that will be right and fit for the 21st century. That is why the outcome of the Lisbon summit at the end of March was so significant. It set a new direction on Europe--a Europe that recognises the importance of competition and enterprise and that is prepared to lift barriers to ensure that we achieve such objectives.
Mr. Campbell-Savours: I agree with my right hon. Friend that Lisbon is absolutely the key. May I take him back to his earlier remarks? What he said will come as a shock to millions of people in this country. Is he saying that he cannot get an assurance from the Conservative party that it will not exempt small businesses from the national minimum wage? If he is saying that, and we do not hear such assurances, major news is being made in the House of Commons. The issue affects millions of people, and they should know exactly what is being said and what is being planned. I appeal to my right hon. Friend to press the Conservatives. Let us have the truth now.
Mr. Byers: The hon. Member for Tiverton and Honiton has already disclosed the policy, which is exactly as my hon. Friend has described. There has been no attempt to disassociate the Conservative party from the points that he made. The position is absolutely clear. We know that the debate in the Conservative party about the minimum wage is still being fought by certain members of it, including the hon. Lady, who speaks on such matters for the party.
Mr. Campbell-Savours: On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I wonder whether it could be noted in Hansard that when those exchanges took place, the Opposition Front-Bench team--
Mr. Deputy Speaker: Order. The hon. Gentleman must know by now that he must not pursue points of debate through bogus points of order.
Mr. Byers: I want to turn to the question of--
Mr. Bercow: Will the Secretary of State give way?
Mr. Byers: No, I want to make some progress on the question of the relationship between sterling and, in particular, the single European currency.
Mr. Bercow: The right hon. Gentleman promised that he would give way.
Mr. Bercow: The Secretary of State, for all his failings, is exceptionally courteous and I am very grateful to him. Given that the United States has been so much more successful over a period of 30 years than the European Union in the creation and retention of private sector jobs, why, in considering parental leave policy, was not the Secretary of State sensible enough to reject the parental leave directive of the EU and instead to copy the provisions of the Family and Medical Leave Act 1993 from the United States?
Mr. Byers: Because I took the view, for better or worse, that a parent who works in a firm that employs 10 or 15 people should have the same rights as a parent who works for a firm that employs 500 or 1,000 people. Their parental responsibilities are the same and people should not be denied the opportunity to look after their children in an appropriate way simply because of the size of the firm for which they happen to work. The hon. Gentleman might disagree with that approach, but I think that it was the right one to take.
On sterling and manufacturing, I understand the difficulties that the current fall in the euro is causing some sections of British industry, especially manufacturing. The current euro-sterling exchange rate cannot be justified by any view of long-term economic fundamentals. Some argue that joining the single currency would end the difficulties that the euro's weakness is creating for some exporters. That was the point made earlier today by the chairman of Massey Ferguson.
The Government's policy is clear. It was stated by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor in October 1997 and by my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister in early 1999. The crucial factor underpinning any Government decision on joining the single currency is whether the economic benefits to the United Kingdom from joining are clear and unambiguous. Britain should be part of the single currency, provided that the economic conditions have been met and the people have given their consent in a
referendum--but the five economic tests laid down by the Chancellor have to be met. We shall judge whether the five tests have been met early in the next Parliament. If the economic tests are satisfied, we should join the single currency, if that is what the Government, Parliament and the people decide.Unlike the Conservatives, we do not rule out joining the single currency for an indefinite period even if, during that time, it was in the national interest to join. Nevertheless, it is vital that we do not, by default, drift back to a policy of wait and see, as to do so would be to deny a genuine choice to the British people. Therefore, we need to re-affirm our commitment to prepare and decide. We shall not allow political dogma to triumph over the national interest. We shall put the interests of our country and of our businesses first, and provide the British people with the opportunity to exercise a genuine choice in an important area.
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