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Northern Ireland (Flags)
10.26 pm
The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr. Peter Mandelson): I beg to move,
- That the draft Flags (Northern Ireland) Order 2000, which was laid before this House on 15th May, be approved.
It does not need me to point out that in Northern Ireland symbols matter a lot, and this is something that we need to address. Symbols represent the different identities and different traditions of those who live in this part of the United Kingdom and, like other symbols, flags have historically been a source of conflict that has driven people apart. My reason for bringing this draft order before the House tonight is not to perpetuate such symbolic clashes, but to try and ensure that they do not become a permanent source of division in the future.
Northern Ireland, in my view, has never had a better chance than now to leave behind it the divisions of the past. In under a week, I hope that, following the IRA's historic statement, the restored institutions will get down once again to the business of governing in the interests of all the people of Northern Ireland. I believe that these institutions--politics itself--have no hope of functioning smoothly and effectively until old constitutional sores and provocations are put to one side.
That was the thinking behind the Good Friday agreement, a framework in which both Unionists and nationalists can participate together in the interests of all the people of Northern Ireland. They can do so while remaining every inch a Unionist, nationalist or, indeed, republican, as they wish, as long as they do so by peaceful and democratic means. This is the foundation of the new dispensation being created in Northern Ireland.
Without in any way surrendering their fundamental political beliefs, both main traditions now agree on the fundamental constitutional issue. They agree that it should be settled exclusively on the basis of consent, with the will of the people, freely expressed, prevailing over guns, bullying and intimidation. In particular, the participants in the agreement explicitly accept:
- the present wish of a majority of the people of Northern Ireland . . . is to maintain the Union and accordingly, that Northern Ireland's status as part of the United Kingdom reflects and relies upon that wish . . .
As far as Her Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom are concerned, let me make this clear: that means that the Union flag continues to fly over our buildings in Northern Ireland on the basis applied
elsewhere in the United Kingdom. The principle of consent was a cornerstone of the Good Friday agreement. As such, it must receive more than lip service, as too must another cornerstone--the principle of equality: that both traditions are equally valid and that there must be
- just and equal treatment for the identity, ethos, and aspirations of both.
On this basis, let me address directly a concern which I know is sincerely held by some Unionists: that the rights of equality for the minority in Northern Ireland are currently in danger of cutting across the principle of consent enjoyed by the majority, that the agreement has led to a climate in which, bit by bit, the last vestiges of Britishness are being dismantled, and that the argument about flags is symptomatic of a deeper malaise.
I understand that analysis and the fears from which it springs, but I completely reject it. There may be a simplistic view among some nationalists--not, I hasten to say, my colleague the Irish Foreign Minister, who is too wise for such an approach--that the display of emblems of Britishness is somehow incompatible with the Good Friday agreement. That is emphatically not the Government's view. As long as, consistent with the Good Friday agreement, symbols and emblems are used sensitively and in a manner which promotes mutual respect rather than division, I see no difficulty in their use, and my actions will be based on that view.
Mr. Peter Robinson (Belfast, East) rose--
Mr. Mandelson: I will give way in a moment.
The fact is that the Good Friday agreement is no more about decommissioning Britishness than it is about suppressing Irishness. In a society such as Northern Ireland's, either approach would be wrong in principle and bound only to lead to the alienation of a significant section of the population. As I have said before, we will have failed if at the end of the day, with all that we are trying to do and all the progress that I believe we are making, we have simply replaced an alienated nationalist tradition with an alienated Unionist one.
Nor do I believe that, as the agreement is worked out, we will see any significant diminution in the sense of Britishness in Northern Ireland. Speaking for myself, I welcome that. The Union has great strengths and brings benefits to all those living in its constituent parts. But there is--and I take this as an example of where our actions are resisting any diminution of Britishness--no recommendation in the criminal justice review to drop the title "royal" in the courts of justice or the royal arms from the outside of courtrooms. I hope and believe that the royal family's close connection with and interest in Northern Ireland will be not only be sustained, but enhanced. Britishness, therefore, far from being on its way out, will remain while there is a population wishing to express it.
Against that background, let me turn to the issue of flags, unless the hon. Member for Belfast, East (Mr. Robinson) wishes to intervene at this stage.
Mr. Robinson: I am grateful to the Secretary of State for giving way. My intervention is on that issue.
Does the right hon. Gentleman believe that the provisions of the order and his remarks to the House would apply to Parliament Buildings, Stormont?
Mr. Mandelson: I have considered that matter. In the circumstances, I believe that it would be better to leave the arrangements for Parliament buildings--which have worked quite satisfactorily to date--to the Members of that Assembly. If the matter has to be reviewed, then reviewed it will be, but the hon. Gentleman will accept that the problem has been not at Parliament buildings, but elsewhere.
It would be surprising indeed if all evidence of the past clashes and conflicts in Northern Ireland disappeared overnight. Of course, it will not do so. As I have said, the flying of flags has been a battleground in the past, and proved something of the same during the first weeks of the devolved Executive. Under direct rule, the position was that the Union flag was flown from all Government buildings on certain set days. Those included most of the days on which the Union flag was flown from Government buildings elsewhere in the United Kingdom. However, also included were some extra days specific only to Northern Ireland; for example, St. Patrick's day and 12 July.
The basis of flag flying is, formally, a royal command by Her Majesty issued on the royal prerogative. There is no other basis in law. Under devolution, those powers of the royal prerogative were transferred, in respect of devolved matters, to the individual Northern Ireland Ministers and Departments. During the 10 weeks of devolution, there was--broadly--a common position among the Northern Ireland Ministers on how they should exercise their prerogative powers in relation to the Union flag within their respective Departments.
The result was that most Departments flew the Union flag from all their buildings on all the specified days. However, two Departments, under the instructions of their Ministers, did not fly the Union flag at all. Let me make it clear: I believe that this difficult--though symbolic--issue would be best resolved by the Executive Committee itself and I believe that the best way of doing so is by accommodation on the principles of the Good Friday agreement and the principle of respect for both identities.
I believe that practice in Northern Ireland should reflect practice elsewhere in the United Kingdom.
Mr. Dominic Grieve (Beaconsfield): I think that the Secretary of State has half answered the question that I was about to put. When one reads the Good Friday agreement--especially the first pages of the text--is it not clear that there can be only one answer, under the agreement, as to what flag should be flown over Government buildings? Therefore, the actions of certain members of the Executive in not doing so flew completely in the face of the text and the spirit of the agreement.
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