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Mr. Forth: Notwithstanding my right hon. Friend's enormous experience of these matters, how does he expect an effective search to be made if the hat and coat are removed, but footwear is left intact? I should have thought that things could be hidden in shoes.
Mr. Maclean: That is perfectly possible, but I refer my right hon. Friend to subsection (4). As one who has, in a past life, conducted body searches at airports and other premises, I do have considerable experience of these matters, and I am happy to advise the Government, free and gratis. Subsection (4) states:
- If a constable conducting the body search in subsection (3) above is of the opinion that Additional Protocol information can only be discovered by an intimate body search of the person or persons being searched then he shall inform the person or persons that he is of that opinion.
Mr. Maclean: The intimate body search, which, under my new clause, would be conducted by a qualified
medical practitioner, would encompass body orifices. The police do not normally consider the mouth to be intimate nowadays, but all other parts of the body could be searched by a qualified medical practitioner at a police station. In the course of that, clothing would be removed and could be searched, and anything secreted in boots or socks would also be discovered.I consider it an important protection for members of the public for the right to conduct strip-down or intimate body searches to be given to authorised officers or police constables who would turn up and conduct searches at the scene. I think it right to clarify this area of the law. I invite the Minister to consider the--I must confess--much better proposals tabled by my right hon. Friend the Member for Bromley and Chislehurst, which set out in intimate detail, indeed excruciating detail, how to conduct proper body searches.
Dr. Howells: As an expert on laptops and CDs, the right hon. Gentleman will know that any such information would almost certainly be contained on floppy disks or CDs. Can he tell us in which orifice he thinks they would be secreted?
Mr. Maclean: I can certainly think of Labour Members who could hold a CD in their mouths without too much difficulty. [Laughter.] The Minister must admit that he set that one up.
Mr. Bercow: Some of us are less concerned about the intimacy of the body search than about the sex of the person undertaking it. I am thinking of subsection (5) of new clause 1. Would my right hon. Friend grant the person to be searched the right to specify that the medical practitioner should not be of the same sex as him or her?
Mr. Maclean: My hon. Friend makes a valid point. I pointed out that we should make allowance on the off chance for the existence of a police constable of "any sex", or indeterminate sex, or none. Similarly, I accept that there can be some pretty odd doctors about. That should produce a few more letters in the postbag.
Mr. Leigh: There has been some merriment at this point, but time is running out. I hope my right hon. Friend will make the serious point that, if the new clauses and amendments are not passed, for almost the first time in our history a civil servant will be able, without the express authority of the court, to break into someone's home. That is not a laughing matter; it is a very serious matter, and the new clauses and amendments are very important.
Mr. Maclean: My hon. Friend is right.
I dealt first with new clause 3, which contains important powers relating to the forcible entry warrant, because I thought it helpful to deal with it before coming to the searching of persons. That seemed a logical step. Inevitably, when the House starts discussing the searching of people and bodies, some see cause for merriment. There has been legitimate scope for that on every Committee on which I have served when Ministers have tabled clauses of this nature. Let us face it: it will be a poor day when the House takes itself too seriously about everything.
There may be legitimate scope for merriment in new clause 1, if we do not get it right. Nevertheless, the underlying thrust of the new clauses is an attempt to tighten parts of the Bill that I think can be tightened without the Government's being caused any difficulty.
If Madam Speaker had selected amendments to clause 5 to make an agency inspector get a warrant, the Government would rightly say, "Can't do that. It's totally contrary to what we've agreed. We've signed an international agreement. You're asking us to change something that we've signed up to as a Government. Can't be done." We are not asking the Government to do that. They are happy for an authorised officer to go to a justice of the peace to obtain a warrant under clause 4. They are happy that, in slightly grey and indeterminate circumstances, a police constable may accompany that officer. We are not sure what would happen if the police superintendent running the basic command unit refused and said, "I've more to do with my bobbies than to send them with your inspectors to raid premises looking for nuclear material." He may refuse, or he may decide that it is important and allocate officers, go himself or send an inspector. Joint police co-operation is a grey area and needs to be clarified.
In new clause 1, I have tried to clarify searching, which is also a grey area. The Government's clause on searching is so narrow as to be meaningless. Searching people of the opposite sex is a grey area. I think that I know where the Government are coming from. I know what powers they want to build into the legislation. I suggest that my new clause 1 is an improvement.
My right hon. Friend the Member for Bromley and Chislehurst will want to argue passionately for his amendment to miss out "any reasonable hour". I would not resist that amendment, and would happily vote for it.
It being four hours after the commencement of proceedings on the motion, Mr. Deputy Speaker, pursuant to Order [this day], put forthwith the Question necessary for the disposal of proceedings to be concluded at that hour.
Motion made, and Question put, That the Bill be now read the Third time.--[Mr. Pope.]
The House divided: Ayes 310, Noes 2.
AYES
Ainger, Nick
Ainsworth, Robert (Cov'try NE)
Alexander, Douglas
Allen, Graham
Anderson, Donald (Swansea E)
Anderson, Janet (Rossendale)
Armstrong, Rt Hon Ms Hilary
Ashdown, Rt Hon Paddy
Ashton, Joe
Atkins, Charlotte
Austin, John
Banks, Tony
Barnes, Harry
Bayley, Hugh
Beard, Nigel
Beckett, Rt Hon Mrs Margaret
Begg, Miss Anne
Beith, Rt Hon A J
Bell, Martin (Tatton)
Bell, Stuart (Middlesbrough)
Benn, Hilary (Leeds C)
Benn, Rt Hon Tony (Chesterfield)
Bennett, Andrew F
Bermingham, Gerald
Berry, Roger
Betts, Clive
Blackman, Liz
Blears, Ms Hazel
Blizzard, Bob
Blunkett, Rt Hon David
Bottomley, Peter (Worthing W)
Bradley, Keith (Withington)
Bradley, Peter (The Wrekin)
Bradshaw, Ben
Breed, Colin
Brown, Russell (Dumfries)
Browne, Desmond
Burden, Richard
Burgon, Colin
Butler, Mrs Christine
Byers, Rt Hon Stephen
Caborn, Rt Hon Richard
Campbell, Mrs Anne (C'bridge)
Campbell, Rt Hon Menzies
(NE Fife)
Campbell, Ronnie (Blyth V)
Campbell-Savours, Dale
Cann, Jamie
Caplin, Ivor
Casale, Roger
Chapman, Ben (Wirral S)
Clapham, Michael
Clark, Rt Hon Dr David (S Shields)
Clark, Dr Lynda
(Edinburgh Pentlands)
Clark, Paul (Gillingham)
Clarke, Charles (Norwich S)
Clarke, Eric (Midlothian)
Clarke, Tony (Northampton S)
Clelland, David
Clwyd, Ann
Coaker, Vernon
Coffey, Ms Ann
Cohen, Harry
Coleman, Iain
Colman, Tony
Connarty, Michael
Cook, Frank (Stockton N)
Corbett, Robin
Corbyn, Jeremy
Cotter, Brian
Cousins, Jim
Crausby, David
Cryer, John (Hornchurch)
Cummings, John
Cunningham, Jim (Cov'try S)
Darvill, Keith
Davey, Valerie (Bristol W)
Davidson, Ian
Davies, Rt Hon Denzil (Llanelli)
Dawson, Hilton
Dean, Mrs Janet
Denham, John
Donohoe, Brian H
Doran, Frank
Dowd, Jim
Drew, David
Dunwoody, Mrs Gwyneth
Eagle, Maria (L'pool Garston)
Edwards, Huw
Efford, Clive
Ellman, Mrs Louise
Ennis, Jeff
Etherington, Bill
Fearn, Ronnie
Field, Rt Hon Frank
Fisher, Mark
Fitzpatrick, Jim
Fitzsimons, Mrs Lorna
Flint, Caroline
Flynn, Paul
Follett, Barbara
Foster, Rt Hon Derek
Foster, Michael J (Worcester)
Fyfe, Maria
Galloway, George
George, Andrew (St Ives)
Gerrard, Neil
Gidley, Sandra
Gilroy, Mrs Linda
Godman, Dr Norman A
Godsiff, Roger
Goggins, Paul
Golding, Mrs Llin
Gordon, Mrs Eileen
Gorrie, Donald
Griffiths, Jane (Reading E)
Griffiths, Nigel (Edinburgh S)
Griffiths, Win (Bridgend)
Grocott, Bruce
Grogan, John
Hain, Peter
Hall, Mike (Weaver Vale)
Hall, Patrick (Bedford)
Harman, Rt Hon Ms Harriet
Harvey, Nick
Heal, Mrs Sylvia
Healey, John
Heath, David (Somerton & Frome)
Henderson, Doug (Newcastle N)
Henderson, Ivan (Harwich)
Hepburn, Stephen
Heppell, John
Hesford, Stephen
Hill, Keith
Hinchliffe, David
Hoon, Rt Hon Geoffrey
Hope, Phil
Hopkins, Kelvin
Howarth, Alan (Newport E)
Howells, Dr Kim
Hughes, Ms Beverley (Stretford)
Hughes, Kevin (Doncaster N)
Humble, Mrs Joan
Hurst, Alan
Hutton, John
Iddon, Dr Brian
Illsley, Eric
Jackson, Ms Glenda (Hampstead)
Jackson, Helen (Hillsborough)
Jenkins, Brian
Johnson, Alan (Hull W & Hessle)
Johnson, Miss Melanie
(Welwyn Hatfield)
Jones, Rt Hon Barry (Alyn)
Jones, Helen (Warrington N)
Jones, Ms Jenny
(Wolverh'ton SW)
Jones, Jon Owen (Cardiff C)
Jones, Dr Lynne (Selly Oak)
Jowell, Rt Hon Ms Tessa
Keeble, Ms Sally
Keen, Alan (Feltham & Heston)
Keen, Ann (Brentford & Isleworth)
Keetch, Paul
Kennedy, Jane (Wavertree)
Khabra, Piara S
Kidney, David
Kilfoyle, Peter
King, Andy (Rugby & Kenilworth)
King, Ms Oona (Bethnal Green)
Kingham, Ms Tess
Ladyman, Dr Stephen
Lawrence, Mrs Jackie
Laxton, Bob
Lepper, David
Levitt, Tom
Lewis, Ivan (Bury S)
Lewis, Terry (Worsley)
Liddell, Rt Hon Mrs Helen
Linton, Martin
Lloyd, Tony (Manchester C)
Lock, David
McAvoy, Thomas
McCabe, Steve
McCafferty, Ms Chris
McDonagh, Siobhain
Macdonald, Calum
McGuire, Mrs Anne
McIsaac, Shona
McKenna, Mrs Rosemary
Mackinlay, Andrew
McNulty, Tony
MacShane, Denis
Mactaggart, Fiona
McWalter, Tony
Mahon, Mrs Alice
Mallaber, Judy
Marsden, Gordon (Blackpool S)
Marsden, Paul (Shrewsbury)
Marshall, David (Shettleston)
Marshall, Jim (Leicester S)
Marshall-Andrews, Robert
Martlew, Eric
Maxton, John
Meale, Alan
Merron, Gillian
Michie, Bill (Shef'ld Heeley)
Mitchell, Austin
Moffatt, Laura
Morgan, Alasdair (Galloway)
Morgan, Ms Julie (Cardiff N)
Morley, Elliot
Morris, Rt Hon Ms Estelle
(B'ham Yardley)
Morris, Rt Hon Sir John (Aberavon)
Mountford, Kali
Mudie, George
Murphy, Denis (Wansbeck)
Norris, Dan
O'Brien, Bill (Normanton)
O'Brien, Mike (N Warks)
O'Neill, Martin
Organ, Mrs Diana
Pearson, Ian
Pendry, Tom
Perham, Ms Linda
Pickthall, Colin
Pike, Peter L
Plaskitt, James
Pond, Chris
Pope, Greg
Pound, Stephen
Prentice, Ms Bridget (Lewisham E)
Prentice, Gordon (Pendle)
Prescott, Rt Hon John
Primarolo, Dawn
Prosser, Gwyn
Purchase, Ken
Quin, Rt Hon Ms Joyce
Quinn, Lawrie
Radice, Rt Hon Giles
Rammell, Bill
Rapson, Syd
Raynsford, Nick
Reid, Rt Hon Dr John (Hamilton N)
Rendel, David
Roche, Mrs Barbara
Rooker, Rt Hon Jeff
Rooney, Terry
Rowlands, Ted
Roy, Frank
Russell, Bob (Colchester)
Salter, Martin
Sanders, Adrian
Sarwar, Mohammad
Savidge, Malcolm
Sedgemore, Brian
Shaw, Jonathan
Sheldon, Rt Hon Robert
Short, Rt Hon Clare
Singh, Marsha
Skinner, Dennis
Smith, Rt Hon Andrew (Oxford E)
Smith, Angela (Basildon)
Smith, Miss Geraldine
(Morecambe & Lunesdale)
Smith, Jacqui (Redditch)
Smith, Llew (Blaenau Gwent)
Soley, Clive
Starkey, Dr Phyllis
Steinberg, Gerry
Stevenson, George
Stewart, David (Inverness E)
Stewart, Ian (Eccles)
Stinchcombe, Paul
Stoate, Dr Howard
Strang, Rt Hon Dr Gavin
Straw, Rt Hon Jack
Stringer, Graham
Stuart, Ms Gisela
Stunell, Andrew
Sutcliffe, Gerry
Taylor, Rt Hon Mrs Ann
(Dewsbury)
Taylor, David (NW Leics)
Temple-Morris, Peter
Thomas, Gareth R (Harrow W)
Thomas, Simon (Ceredigion)
Timms, Stephen
Tipping, Paddy
Todd, Mark
Trickett, Jon
Turner, Dennis (Wolverh'ton SE)
Turner, Dr George (NW Norfolk)
Turner, Neil (Wigan)
Twigg, Derek (Halton)
Tyler, Paul
Tynan, Bill
Vis, Dr Rudi
Walley, Ms Joan
Ward, Ms Claire
Wareing, Robert N
Watts, David
Webb, Steve
Whitehead, Dr Alan
Williams, Rt Hon Alan
(Swansea W)
Williams, Alan W (E Carmarthen)
Willis, Phil
Wilson, Brian
Winnick, David
Wood, Mike
Woolas, Phil
Worthington, Tony
Wray, James
Wright, Anthony D (Gt Yarmouth)
Wyatt, Derek
Tellers for the Ayes:
Mr. David Jamieson and
Mr. Don Touhig.
NOES
Paterson, Owen
Wilkinson, John
Tellers for the Noes:
Mr. Eric Forth and
Mr. Edward Leigh.
Question accordingly agreed to.
Bill read the Third time, and passed, without amendment.
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