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Mr. Tony Lloyd (Manchester, Central): Fear of crime is almost certainly the biggest single political issue that my constituents face--it is above concerns about pensions and anything else on the political agenda. In the light of that, I must say that the attack on the Government by the Opposition is unwelcome. It is unwelcome not because there is not a debate to be had about crime and crime reduction, but because, when we trivialise the issue and make it a matter of party political knockabout, we do a major disservice to the real interests of millions and millions of people. I hope that we can have a much more intelligent debate that focuses on the real issues.
Mr. Heald: Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Mr. Lloyd: No, if the hon. Gentleman will forgive me.
The Government have already done an awful lot. Many things have been welcomed by my constituents, but the message that they would expect me to give the Government is that there is still a long way to go and not much time for us to make those changes.
Recently, I conducted a survey on crime in one of my local areas. What was astounding was the enormous response to that survey and the overriding concern that people in that community had about the issue of crime and crime in their communities. People feel unsafe--they feel unsafe in their homes and unsafe on the streets. Some people feel very unsafe--so much so, it destroys the quality of their life.
The hon. Member for Southwark, North and Bermondsey (Mr. Hughes) mentioned drugs. It is right to say that, as long as we keep people in the queue for drugs treatment, we are simply recycling people: they are going back on to the streets and committing further crime, which is not good for those individuals and disastrous for society more generally. I know that drug treatment is an integral part of policy, but there is much more for us to do.
My constituents recognise that the issue of crime is much more complicated than simple slogans about who is tougher on the criminal. It is about a whole societal approach. They still want a Government who, like the present one, are committed to cracking down on unemployment. That is why they do not accept the bogusness of the Conservative Government of the past, who doubled crime on the back of the destruction of the communities in which my constituents live.
One of the things of which we should be aware is that trust in the police is much more fragile now than at any time that I can remember. When I go to public meetings about policing, I am struck by how strong the reaction of local people is and by how much the emphasis has changed--it is no longer on the local authority or the Government failing. The basic feeling is that the police are not performing the role that is expected of them. Although that is unfair in some ways, there are issues that must be addressed.
I welcome the clear targets being given to the police. I welcome them for my own police force because it is sometimes difficult to know what the aims and ambitions of the police and senior police management are. It is important that the public understand the strategies, aims and ambitions, but I hope that my hon. Friend the Minister will recognise, too, that sometimes the targets that have been set seem crude and narrow to people on the streets. The public's priorities are more wide ranging than those expressed so far by the Government or by the police. The public say to me that there is a lack of focus.
One of the biggest issues facing communities throughout the country is nuisance. It may seem almost trivial in the grand scheme of things, and I shall be talking about much more serious crimes, but when groups of young people are about quite petty crime that creates fear and disharmony in local communities, which is devastating or destructive.
I recently took up with the local police force the serving of drinks to those under the permitted age. I received a long letter in response, but I did not get what I wanted. I wanted a commitment that the police would take the offenders to court and that their licences would be taken away. That would give a clear message to all those who seek to abuse the law and participate in the process of giving alcohol to young people, which causes the sort of nuisance about which my constituents complain.
My constituents complain legitimately about the slow police response when a crime is being committed and where there is chronic criminality. In West Gorton, one
of my constituents--Nora Peyton, a wonderful woman--persistently challenged local drug dealers. As a result, her home was attacked and she was shot at by young people. Nevertheless, she had to wait for about three months for the local police to crack down and make the necessary arrests. Once the police acted, the situation improved immeasurably. The quality of life in the West Gorton community is now massively better than it was. However, three months was too long to wait.There are issues about the culture of the police, which is sometimes thought to be too defensive. It sometimes leads to victims being blamed instead of being embraced in a partnership. A local police officer told one of my constituents, a victim of robbery, "What do you expect, sir, living where you do? If you want to avoid crime, move away from the area." That type of police officer is massively damaging to morale and the relationship between the public and the police. They have no place in modern policing. They constitute a minority, but they give the police a bad name.
We do not have enough police. In my constituency, Greater Manchester does not have enough police to deploy. An inner-city area has massively more problems than other areas. We do not have enough police in Greater Manchester, and I hope that that message will be taken on board. I will not entertain the Opposition's argument about police numbers, as when they were in government they took many police officers away from my community. However, it is an issue that the Government must address in the context of the comprehensive spending review.
Mr. Heald: Does the hon. Gentleman agree that during the Conservative years the number of police constables continually increased? One of the National Audit Commission's criticisms of the present Government is that they have reversed that trend. Does he not agree that that has made a difference?
Mr. Lloyd: I do not agree. My constituents saw a massive increase in crime and a police force that became beleaguered by the sheer scale of criminality. The numbers game is an interesting one to play, but when in government the Conservatives failed communities, and not only in inner-city areas. They failed the nation, and they should remember that to their shame.
On a more positive note, there are many good things happening in policing, both nationally and locally. Some of the more general initiatives that the Government are taking, such as new deal and sure start, are making serious and important impacts in my community. There is a much better focus by the police and more intelligent policing. Some of the experiments in Salford, a neighbouring area to my constituency, are important in terms of how the police can crack down on local criminality by focusing on its sources. Local area partnerships are successful, although they are still new and not all are consistently good. We must raise the worst standards to the best. Nevertheless, the partnerships are making a big difference.
The multi-agency approach to crime is having an enormous impact in ensuring that those who are responsible for the majority of crimes are targeted, and sometimes before criminality becomes an issue, by dealing with the underlying social issues. We have had success with the implementation of the anti-social
behaviour order process. Ten such orders have been made in the Manchester area, the first being in my constituency. That case involved a group of young thugs who terrorised the local community. However, the process is far too complicated and we need to refine it and make it easier.One of the most ridiculous aspects of that first case was that the stipendiary magistrate in Manchester refused to allow the names of those young thugs to be published. It was only after a campaign in the Manchester Evening News, for which it deserves credit, that that decision was reversed when the anti-social behaviour order went to appeal and the names could be made available.
The police are good at ensuring that anti-social behaviour orders are made. The Government's youth offenders initiative is already having a remarkable effect. The police, along with other agencies, have targeted 77 young people who they believe are responsible for about a quarter of youth offences in the city of Manchester. That is a significant step. We are still waiting for the Greater Manchester police and the court process to narrow the time it takes for cases involving young offenders to get to court.
Local schemes have been enormously important. Under the Home Office funded scheme, Manchester has had £0.5 million for closed circuit television and burglary prevention initiatives, and we hope to get help with projects on domestic violence. The local programme from the city council has matched that money with 65 schemes involving everything from gating back entries to make people feel more secure and to prevent intruders, to CCTV and home security for the elderly, who often fear violence more than most.
I want to raise some further issues about which my hon. Friend the Minister may like to think. We have to change the police culture. We still have some way to go to ensure that they work in partnership with local people and other local agencies. We must address the problem of a lack of police.
The biggest single issue that I would like to draw the House's attention to concerns my constituency's undeserved but nevertheless difficult reputation for murder, which is the most violent of crimes. It is often murder by young men of young men, sometimes involving drugs and sometimes not.
One of the problems that has emerged in recent years is the extremely low success rate for bringing offenders to court. The police put time and effort into the most serious cases: there is no suggestion that they spare any effort to bring those offenders to book. However, they face two important problems, the first of which is witness intimidation. That issue ranges across all crimes, but it is a major problem in murder cases.
The police tell me that when they have taken a witness to court--who may be reluctant at first--and they have asked the judge whether the witness can give evidence behind a screen, the judge has said that that is not possible because on appeal the case would eventually go to the European Court or to our own courts under the European convention on human rights, and giving evidence in that way would be deemed to be unacceptable. It is unacceptable to me that witnesses cannot be given protection in the court process for that reason.
I should like to raise with my hon. Friend the question of cost. Forensic science is enormously expensive. The police tell me that it costs £1,500 for each low-copy DNA test, which can detect a fingerprint on a spent cartridge. That is important for the detection of crime. If witnesses do not come forward, the police can use modern science to come to their aid. However, they have to consider the budget because the prices charged for such forensic science are excessive. That problem must be tackled, and I hope that the Minister understands that.
I am convinced that the Government have already made an important start in rolling back public attitudes and giving more reassurance. We have a long way to go, but the changes that my hon. Friend and his colleagues are making are transforming the public's view in my area of the way in which society operates. It is a change that can only be for the better.
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