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Mr. Straw: We do check. I am absolutely committed to integrity in statistics. Before the implementation of the National Statistics Commission across government, I called in the Royal Statistical Society to ensure that our statistics--provided for Ministers--were of the highest integrity and independence. That is in stark contrast to the record of the previous Administration.
Mr. Bottomley: The Home Secretary should check that with the Office for National Statistics. I held ministerial office for six years during the previous Administration. Although my experience was not at the right hon. Gentleman's exalted level, it was twice as long, so I have twice as much experience of dealing with Government statistical services. Furthermore, I can give him a statistic that he has probably not calculated. During the first five minutes of his speech, the number of Back Benchers who were not in the doughnut around him fell from 11 to nine--a reduction of 18 per cent. in the number of Back Benchers who were listening to him. I merely say that to illustrate the fact that he was not talking to a large audience.
In relation to the serious points that the right hon. Gentleman made, when he talks about the last Government, will he make it plain whether he means the 1992-97 Administration or the years from 1979 to 1997. The last Government is an ambiguous expression, which will no longer suffice. I should be grateful if he could confirm what he means.
I pointed out that there were between 65,000 and 70,000 people in prison. Last year, 18,000 of them were found to have used illegal drugs. I shall not go into detail about the Cambridge Two and the slogan "Help the Homeless--Jail the Social Workers". However, if on only one of the 30 occasions when people in prison use illegal drugs--[Interruption]--I do not know why hon. Members are laughing. If 18,000 in 65,000 prisoners are using illegal drugs, and if the Prison Service--in closed institutions--can detect those drugs in only one in every 30 cases, we have a major problem. The figures are contained in Home Office statistics. No doubt, if I have got them wrong, the Home Secretary will point it out.
The figures have been going down. The problem involved about 24 per cent. of prisoners; the number is now between 17 and 19 per cent. However, if people can obtain illegal drugs in prison, they will continue their drugs habit when they are released. If prison is to help, it should be part of the cure or therapy for some of the underlying problems.
People who are on drugs commit crimes. Sometimes, people commit crimes to obtain drugs. We need to deal with both elements. I support the efforts of the Home Office and the Prison Service to reduce the amount of drugs in prisons.
My final point relates to my constituency. I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Hertsmere (Mr. Clappison) that elderly people especially need a sense of security. That will come when they can see that crime in their area is falling. That point was also made by the hon. Members for Manchester, Central and for Waveney. People will gain a sense of security when they see police officers around and about.
In Worthing, I should not mind if the police station was moved from the centre of town to Durrington. What is important is that the police are visible in villages such as Ferring, Rustington, Goring and East Preston and in central Worthing. People need to see the police and talk to them. People should not see the police only when a family member has been killed or injured in a car crash, or when someone is suspected, or is the victim, of a crime; the police should form an ordinary part of the community.
Mr. Hayes: The non-adversarial policing that my hon. Friend describes will never be achieved if our national statistics are crime led and the police service is funded accordingly. The police will always have to fund such policing on a discretionary basis and they do not have resources to do so.
Mr. Bottomley: I thank my hon. Friend for that point. If he does not have a chance to make a speech, I hope that the Home Office will respond to it.
In trying to achieve that sense of security, the police should consult with local authorities about whether there should be a further reduction in drinking in public. If there are to be increased opportunities for young people to drink in licensed premises, the corollary should be that the amount of drinking in the streets--by the young or by older people--should be controlled. I do not want to get rid of street cafes in tourist areas. However, in residential areas, where there are problems owing to people drinking in the streets, the police and local authorities would be right to reflect popular views that the arrangements should be reviewed. If necessary, there should be a clampdown and a ban.
6.39 pm
Mr. Oliver Heald (North-East Hertfordshire): We have held a good and well-informed debate, although there has been the occasional spiteful comment. However, certain themes have emerged from both sides of the House--even though their interpretation might not always have been the same.
My hon. Friend the Member for Worthing, West (Mr. Bottomley) made a thoughtful and serious speech. Although he described himself as a member of the liberal establishment, I am sure he meant liberal with a small "l". Many of us would agree with what he said about groups, such as the Peabody Trust, that examine thoughtfully the way in which problems of the architecture of the inner city can be dealt with. Obvious changes can be made and everyone in the House should pay those groups a tremendous tribute. My hon. Friend's comments about drink driving were relevant and both sides of the House can accept his point about the need for a change in the culture of society.
One of the themes that my hon. Friend highlighted has been a feature of the debate. A visible police presence is an incredibly important part of elderly people feeling safe in their communities. That point was made by everyone who has spoken.
The hon. Member for Southwark, North and Bermondsey (Mr. Hughes) talked about the need to consider the victims and, in an excellent speech, the hon. Member for Manchester, Central (Mr. Lloyd) said that the fear of crime was the top issue in his constituency. He spoke about a lady who stood out bravely against the drug dealers who were attacking her and he said, quite frankly, that there were not enough police in his area.
The hon. Member for Manchester, Central echoed a point made by Fred Broughton of the Police Federation, who said that the police receive much of the criticism for the way in which things have gone recently. He said:
- Every policy station in the country is facing anger from its community.
My right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Folkestone and Hythe (Mr. Howard) also paid tribute to the bravery of all the individuals he had met as Home Secretary and who put up a fight and stand up for decent values in difficult circumstances. He also put the record straight. He pointed out that, under his stewardship, crime fell by 18 per cent. He is convinced, as I am, that the reason for that was a firmness of approach. To send criminals to prison is not the crime; the crime is not to do that. He spoke about the relationship between the liberal establishment and the failure of successive Governments to deal with crime. He also pointed out that, during his time in office, funding for the police increased in real terms by 4.2 per cent. when, under this Government, it has fallen by 0.2 per cent.
The hon. Member for Waveney (Mr. Blizzard) said that crime is now rising in Suffolk and that it is the top issue in the county. He pointed out that, in rural areas, there was virtually no crime but that its incidence is now rising. He used the expression that the thin blue line is thin. The perception is that crime is rising.
My hon. Friend the Member for Hertsmere (Mr. Clappison) described the plight of the elderly and the vulnerable, with police numbers falling and crime rising in his constituency. He called for a crackdown on anti-social behaviour and pointed out the weakness of antisocial behaviour orders and of the unused and unloved child curfew order.
It was a feature of the debate that everyone who has taken part is concerned about ASBOs. In a debate a few months ago, the hon. Member for Gedling (Mr. Coaker) explained that only one child curfew order has been made in Nottingham and that was against someone who
- had been convicted 55 times in the past two years on charges including theft, taking vehicles, robbery, burglary, handling stolen goods and motoring offences.--[Official Report, Westminster Hall, 1 February 2000; Vol. 343, c. 139WH.]
In measuring the Government's performance against their promises, the starting point should be the Labour party's manifesto. It said:
- The police have our strong support
- get more officers back on the beat.
- Officers on patrol, especially on foot, provide a sense of security, of help being close at hand.
- Our men on the ground are saying that it is getting to the stage that they feel vulnerable and overworked. They do not feel that they can give the public anything like the service they would like and it is in danger of leaving a vacuum on our streets.
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