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Mr. Clappison: I am grateful to the hon. Lady for giving way. Will she address the point that applies to all authorities: if money is provided from central Government for people with learning disabilities, should that not reflect the number of people with learning difficulties in the authorities concerned?
Ms Hughes: I should have thought that the hon. Gentleman would know from his time as a junior Minister in the Department that it is a long-standing feature of the standard spending assessment formula--which we are committed to changing, and which he knows is under review--that all the indicators used in the formula should be outside the direct policy influence of the local authority. In other words, it should not be possible, by using a particular indicator, for the decisions that a local authority takes--in this instance, perhaps, to accept more people with learning difficulties--to be used as a mechanism for increasing its grant.
That is why, in relation to people with learning difficulties as well as a range of other services provided by local authorities, the indicators used are indirect indicators in terms of the general characteristics of the population. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman is well versed in this. I understand the argument that Hertfordshire has advanced, but it is not an argument that we have been prepared to accept, because that would unravel a long-standing feature of SSAs and leave the SSA formula open to influence by the policy decisions of local authorities.
Mr. Clappison: I am grateful to the hon. Lady for giving way again. I am not interested, as she seems to
think, in comparisons with previous Governments, as I do not believe that that is helpful. I understand her point about other authorities, and I hope that I anticipated that in my remarks. I appreciate the difficulties, but will she listen to Hertfordshire county council and look at the research? Will she at least do that?
Ms Hughes: We have considered PricewaterhouseCoopers' research, but, for the reasons that I have just outlined, we cannot accept the point made by Hertfordshire that, on the basis of that research, the SSA formula should include a direct indicator of the number of people with learning difficulties.
The hon. Gentleman seems to have missed some of the points that I have made. It is interesting that he is not particularly interested in comparing Governments, but my reference to the previous Government was valid. I was careful to point out the substantial increases since 1997 that all local authorities have received generally and for personal social services. That is a valid point in terms of evaluating whether Hertfordshire should have enough money to allocate to services for people with learning difficulties in their area.
Mr. Clappison: The hon. Lady introduces a partisan element, which is not necessary and will not be well received in Hertfordshire. I hope that she will at least consider the further research that has been done by Hertfordshire county council and reflect on the fact that, further to her point about local authorities attracting people to their areas, people with learning difficulties are already in Hertfordshire--the hon. Lady knows the historical background--and are not getting the money that they need for their services. I understand the difficulties, but will the hon. Lady at least consider the research in an open-minded way, put aside partisan considerations and help Hertfordshire?
Ms Hughes: I do not accept that I am being any more partisan than the hon. Gentleman. The hon. Gentleman refuses to acknowledge the substantially improved finances for all local authorities that I have outlined. I dare say that he has not pointed that out to his constituents in Hertfordshire either, and he should, because not only does that result in an improvement generally, but it means that Hertfordshire has done particularly well. I have explained Hertfordshire's financial position relative to other shire counties, but the hon. Gentleman refuses to acknowledge that. He has not said that he has pressed Hertfordshire on why it is not allocating sufficient resources for people with learning difficulties.
I do not want to finish without making some general points about the grant distribution system and the priorities for people with learning difficulties in particular. I accept that the grant system attracts criticism. It is a long-standing and opaque system. It has operated for many years and it makes it difficult for authorities to see how their overall grant has been calculated and to plan ahead to improve their services. That is why, with the consent of local authorities, we have started to review that system.
As the hon. Gentleman knows, in the context of that review and with the agreement of local authorities, for the three years that that review will take the SSA formula will be frozen, apart from data changes. The certainty of increased grants, albeit on an SSA formula, gives local authorities time in which to plan, while allowing us to review the situation.
We are not specifically considering the issue raised by the hon. Gentleman within that review, but if Hertfordshire wants to send any research in addition to that done by PricewaterhouseCoopers, my Department will be happy to receive it and consider it in that context. If that is the assurance that the hon. Gentleman seeks, I am happy to give it.
Support for people with learning difficulties is an important priority for the Government, and for my Department and the Department of Health in particular. A significant group of people, including users and carers, as well as professionals, and including a member of a voluntary organisation from the hon. Gentleman's area, has been drawn together to work with us to develop a strategy for improving those services. Given the change of thinking around such services and the belief that such services should be based in the community, the improvement of services generally is one of our priorities and we will continue to strive for that.
I repeat that we have given much more support to local authorities, and also to people with learning difficulties. Funding to provide such people with services has increased substantially in the past three years. We have recognised the limits of the system of grant distribution that we inherited, and we are conducting a review. As I have said, I shall be happy to receive any information that the hon. Gentleman wishes to contribute to that review; but I cannot accept his basic contention that Hertfordshire has fared relatively less well than other authorities. Indeed, as I think that I have made clear, relatively it has fared very well. I hope that it will consider the funds that it has received and seek to improve services for people with learning difficulties in the way that we--and, I am sure, the hon. Gentleman--would like.
- Adjourned accordingly at fourteen minutes to Six o'clock.
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