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Dr. Norman A. Godman (Greenock and Inverclyde): Will my right hon. Friend assure the House that there will be no limit on the policing board's ability to initiate an inquiry?
Mr. Mandelson: I should like to come to that in a moment.
Part V provides for the police service to be under the direction and control of the Chief Constable, as Patten insisted. That is a fundamental principle. The police must retain operational responsibility, but must also account for their actions. Part V also makes provision for the recruitment of police officers and police service support staff. However, I should stress that, notwithstanding an element of independent validation of recruitment, the Chief Constable will be the final arbiter of who is admitted to the police and the police reserve based on merit. Part V includes special measures to change the religious composition of the police service--the so-called 50-50 recruitment.
The Bill makes provision for periodic review of the need for that measure. I have listened to concerns about the provision that will cause it to fall absolutely after 10 years, and I accept that that time limit will be unnecessary if the system is being reviewed regularly. I also believe that it is desirable to aggregate out the balanced recruitment that we want over a period of years if it falls short in a particular year.
Part V enables regulations to be made to enhance pensions and gratuities for officers leaving the police service under voluntary severance arrangements. The Government have made it clear that we will be sympathetic and generous in our approach to officers leaving, whether they are regulars or reserves. The provision enables me to take that approach. It also requires members of the police service to register their interests and associations. Finally, part V will enable me to regulate the emblems and flags of the police service and issue guidance on the police service's deployment of equipment designed for use in maintaining or restoring public order. Naturally, I am obliged to consult before doing so.
Part VI includes enhanced powers for the policing board to require reports from the Chief Constable on any matter connected with the policing of Northern Ireland. It also makes provision for a new power for the policing board to initiate an inquiry into any aspect of the police service. The Government agree with Patten that the policing board needs that power to enable it to hold the Chief Constable to account effectively. However, Patten acknowledged that that was an extreme power, ranking it alongside the board's ability to call on the Chief Constable to retire. The Government have therefore included safeguards on the exercise of the power, which Patten said would be necessary.
Mr. Robert McCartney (North Down) rose--
Mr. Mandelson: I shall give way to the hon. and learned Gentleman in a moment.
I have listened to a wide range of opinions, which hold that the Government have taken those safeguards too far and set too many limitations on the use of that power. I am prepared to strike a different balance on that, but am concerned to protect the police from the risk of vexatious, repetitive or capricious behaviour by the board in initiating inquiries and reports. That probably meets the concerns of my hon. Friend the Member for Hull, North (Mr. McNamara).
Mr. McCartney: On balanced recruitment under part V, has the Secretary of State taken into consideration equality legislation and human rights under the European convention on human rights, which would preclude members of one community having the same rights as members of another?
Mr. Mandelson: All existing and proposed legislation is checked to ensure that it complies with current EU directives. Obviously, if future directives have a bearing on the Bill, we will seek to ensure that there is consistency and compliance or, where necessary, derogations.
Mr. Andrew Robathan (Blaby): Returning to recruitment, the Secretary of State will know that I spent
time patrolling the streets of Northern Ireland with the RUC, including Catholic members who made it clear to me why there were so few Catholics in the RUC. He will know also that a survey showed that 70 per cent. of Catholics believe that the main reason why Catholics do not join the RUC is intimidation and threats from the IRA and others. What reason will Catholics now have to join the RUC when the IRA remains fully armed and, as he will know from security reports and beatings in west Belfast, threats and intimidation continue?
Mr. Mandelson: I am not sure that I follow the connection between the hon. Gentleman's two statements. In response to his first point, I readily accept that intimidation by the IRA has discouraged and, in some cases, stopped members of the Catholic side of the community who would otherwise be prepared to join the RUC. However, I cannot accept that that is the only reason why Catholics and nationalists have not joined. The hon. Gentleman has only to consider the latest survey evidence, which was issued as recently as February, to realise why they have not joined.
One third of Catholics believe that the police do not treat both sides of the community equally. Three quarters of Catholics and nearly two thirds of Protestants believe that there are too few Catholics in the police force. The fact that there are too few Catholics in the RUC and that there is not, among parts of the Catholic and nationalist community, a sense of acceptance of the police directly discourages individuals from offsetting that imbalance and signing up. We are implementing the Patten recommendations to overcome that extreme religious imbalance in the composition of the police and the perception among some on the Catholic and nationalist side of the community that the police are not owned--in the most general sense of the term--by the community as a whole.
Mr. Douglas Hogg (Sleaford and North Hykeham): The right hon. Gentleman has dealt with inquiries, and he will recognise that the power to order an inquiry is very important. What steps are provided for, in the Bill or otherwise, to ensure that those inquiries are held in a judicial manner and in accordance with the principles of natural justice, that those who appear before an inquiry are properly represented and have the opportunity of cross-examination and that relevant witnesses have to give their testimony on oath?
Mr. Mandelson: We are not constructing or making available to the board courts of law in order that it can make what may be simple and straightforward inquiries into police behaviour and practices. I am satisfied that we will be able to agree with the board the approach that it will take. I am concerned that the principle of accountability and the right of the policing board to make inquiries, obtain information and issue reports as it thinks fit should be properly supported in legislation and by me.
I am concerned only that that right and power, which has been described as extreme, should not be abused in any way. That is why I propose to put in place limited safeguards, although I readily accept that in the Bill as drafted, I have probably gone too far in the limitations that I seek to impose on the policing board in exercising that power.
Mr. William Thompson (West Tyrone): Does the Secretary of State accept that Roman Catholics failed to
join the RUC not just because of intimidation, but because they had a more important political objection? The RUC was a British police force, and, as nationalists, Roman Catholics did not wish to be identified with such a force. Will that objection not remain despite all the changes?
Mr. Mandelson: The hon. Gentleman seems to be making a case for us to address the issue of the symbols, the insignia and the associations that the RUC has had with the British state. I am somewhat surprised that he should lead us down that road, but perhaps I can deal with his point in a moment, when I come to it in my speech.
Part VII deals with changes to the powers and functions of the police ombudsman. I believe that she is broadly happy with them, but she will want to be assured that she has all the papers and information necessary for her to do her job. I am sympathetic to that need, and will ensure that it is properly met by the Bill.
Part VIII deals with a number of what are termed miscellaneous and supplementary provisions, including the establishment of the Royal Ulster Constabulary George Cross Foundation. I am delighted that that provision has met with wide approval in Northern Ireland, because, as I have said, I think it essential for us to honour the sacrifices and the achievements of the Royal Ulster Constabulary, while preparing the police for the new beginning that they need.
All these reforms present a radical agenda, and we need help with their implementation. Last week, I was pleased to be able to announce the appointment of the independent commissioner who will oversee the reforms. The appointment of Tom Constantine, a widely respected former head of the United States Drug Enforcement Administration, has been widely supported in Northern Ireland. None the less, I have listened carefully to representations made to me that the office of oversight commissioner should be put on a statutory basis in the Bill. I have been persuaded by the arguments, and intend that to happen.
Mr. Andrew Hunter (Basingstoke): I am anxious that the Secretary of State should not leave the subject of part VIII without answering a question.
My understanding is that clauses 69 and 70 allow for the continuation of a police reserve, but do not assert the case for its continuation. Will the right hon. Gentleman at some point clarify the position? Will he explain his intentions in regard to the reserve? I understood from the debate generated by Patten that Patten sought to have it removed.
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