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Mr. Grieve: The hon. Gentleman seems to be getting to the heart of the matter. He has spelled out a vision and said that Liberal Democrats share it--I can assure him that Conservatives share it as well--but he has also pointed out that certain elements in the community want to distort it for their own advantage. Some changes may
simply be used as instruments with which to beat the police over the head in one meeting of the policing board after another, and some ratcheted political advantage may be sought, rather than being used to create consensus community policing, which is the reason for the new force's creation. Is not that a problem with the Bill, and a reason why it causes so much difficulty?
Mr. Öpik: The hon. Gentleman is correct that the issue is politically charged. Enormous symbolism is attached to it. Although that does not make the debate a bad thing, it makes it more difficult for us to steer an acceptable course from here to the end of proceedings on the Bill. With respect to him, I fear that on occasion, his party may be in danger of using the Bill as a political opportunity, which is not healthy. I am sorry that the right hon. Member for Bracknell (Mr. MacKay) is not present to hear this point, but I ask him and his colleagues to assure us that they will not persist in trying to score party political points on the United Kingdom mainland when we need a more rational and more measured approach.
The hon. Member for Beaconsfield (Mr. Grieve) has made an important point about community policing, and a good aspect of the Bill is the recognition that we must move to a more usual form of policing if the police service is to win the trust of the local community. That has not been achieved, for obvious reasons, in parts of Northern Ireland, but only when it occurs will the police service be seen by all as the legitimate law-keeping force. Therefore, clause 15 is welcome. It provides a general function for the new district policing partnerships, with plans for obtaining the views of the public as a whole on matters of local concern. The partnerships will seek the public's co-operation in preventing crime and act as general forums for discussion and consultation on matters affecting local policing.
We are also encouraged by clause 21, which will allow the policing board to
- make arrangements to facilitate consultation
The annual report on the policing of Northern Ireland must include a section on police compliance with the Human Rights Act 1998. The Liberal Democrat response to Patten praised the emphasis on human rights, which are essential to the well-being of a democratic society. The police must be seen to follow up and uphold the highest standards of international human rights. The Government seem to have accepted Patten's recommendation to include in the police service oath taken by new recruits a commitment to uphold human rights. That represents progress. I do not want to discuss just how the oath should be applied retrospectively, but I note that there are very strong, reasonably expressed views on both sides. That subject is best left until we can discuss it and related specific amendments in Committee.
Some issues were missing from Patten, but the establishment of the RUC George Cross Foundation goes a long way to correcting the omission of any recognition
of the dedication and sacrifices of police officers and their families throughout the years of the troubles. We have emphasised that it is vital for officers who have served in the RUC to be treated with dignity, respect and generosity. Therefore, we also welcome the special provisions for severance and retirement packages in clause 45, although the detail will be important in establishing the extent to which those measures fulfil our hope that the respectful wishes of most Members of the House are carried out.Several provisions, some of which have been alluded to, still cause much concern. For the Liberal Democrats, clause 43, which deals with quotas, is the most significant problem. We fully support the need to make the police more representative, especially in relation to Catholics, but the imbalance in the proportion of Catholics applying for work in the police will not be fixed by demanding that an equal number be recruited from the qualified pool of candidates. Quotas are essentially a public policy tool for tackling discrimination at the point of selection. That is not the issue in Northern Ireland. The problem arises at the point of application.
The hon. Member for Newry and Armagh made the point clearly: there is under-representation because an insufficient number of Catholics apply for jobs in the police. However, the solution lies not with a quota, but with the community attitude to the police. That cannot be handled by using quotas at the stage envisaged by the Government. Quotas miss the fundamental point that there are few Catholic applicants. That is not because Catholics have not been accepted by the RUC, but because, given the reasons that we have heard about, they have not had enough confidence in the idea of being in the police force to make applications. I have already discussed at length the importance of ensuring that the police are seen to be fair and impartial. They have not been viewed as such in the past, and some members of the community have not had enough trust in the police to consider a career with them.
The 18 to 30 population in Northern Ireland, which is the likely source of new recruits, already has a rough balance between Protestants and Catholics: 45 per cent. are Catholics, 44 per cent. are Protestants and 11 per cent. are from other groups. If reform works, the natural rate of recruitment should therefore be balanced. If we get the applications right at the start, I believe that recruitment will work out in the end and quotas will become unnecessary, serving little more than a cosmetic purpose and giving a psychological guarantee of fair treatment. However, if, for whatever reason, the Catholic population does not apply to the police service, the use of quotas will not overcome the problem. They provide a tactical solution to a strategic issue.
It would therefore be far more beneficial to initiate a strong programme of affirmative action to encourage more Catholics to apply to the police. Leaders of the Catholic community in Northern Ireland, such as politicians, church leaders and teachers should actively promote that and encourage young people to consider policing as a career option. That can be done only if community leaders go into those communities, as the hon. Member for Newry and Armagh said, and can point to a police service that they trust and which they can be seen to promote in a credible way.
Other under-represented groups such as women and ethnic minorities should be actively targeted and encouraged to join the police. New recruits from the pool of qualified candidates should then be monitored to ensure equity in recruitment opportunities. I shall be interested to hear the Minister's view on that approach to an up-front percentage increase in applicants, which contrasts with going to the tail end of the recruitment process and seeking to address the problem long after it has been created.
We must also watch out for quotas because, inadvertently, they may be more divisive for the police service, sectarianising what would otherwise be an integrated force. New officers benefiting from positive discrimination on, for example, religious grounds, could be put in a rather difficult position, as there is some evidence that positive discrimination can cause resentment in organisations.
I shall underline an issue that has already been raised, and question the legality of such a move. The Bill proposes to amend current fair employment legislation to make room for quotas, which sets a dangerous precedent. Quotas are banned under that legislation because they are not regarded as a fair solution to an imbalance. I therefore seek guidance from Ministers on whether quotas are permissible under European law.
Patten himself admits that the use of quotas for gender would be illegal. Even if quotas based on religion are currently legal, it is likely that they will become illegal in a year or so as a result of two directives under the Amsterdam treaty. There are proposals for a council directive establishing a general framework for equal treatment in employment and occupation, and for a council directive implementing the principle of equal treatment of people, regardless of racial or ethnic origin. Once again, therefore, I ask the Government to review their decision to include quotas in the Bill, and to examine those directives. We shall table amendments on those points later: this is a principle on which Liberal Democrat Members will push very hard indeed.
The code of ethics is the primary legislative tool for achieving a human rights agenda in the police. However, the drafting of the code is left to the discretion of the Secretary of State, without bodies such as the Human Rights Commission being granted explicit rights to be consulted. That should be rectified. Clause 30(4) requires members of the police only to "have regard" to the code of ethics. That should be amended to require them to comply with it. The phrase "have regard" is hardly a vote of confidence in the whole process, and the Bill should be more assertive.
Earlier, I welcomed aspects of the Bill which will help to improve the accountability, openness and transparency of the police.
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