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3.9 pm
Ms Claire Ward (Watford): I welcome this Opposition day debate because it highlights further the hypocritical opportunism of the Tories, which is at the core of their party. In choosing the subject for today's debate, Conservative Members seem to have forgotten their record when in office. It shows that they have no interest in pensioners. The previous Government abolished free eye tests for pensioners; they also abolished the link with earnings. That made pensioners poorer and resulted in the Government's introduction of the 75p increase for pensioners in April this year.
Mr. Swayne: Does the hon. Lady favour the restoration of the earnings link? If so, has she made representations to the Government Front Bench?
Ms Ward: I shall comment on the way in which the Government could do much better later. I assure the hon. Gentleman that I shall reach his point, if he will have a little patience.
I am currently considering the previous Government's record. They allowed winter fuel payments to be made only if stringent conditions, about which we heard earlier, were satisfied. They made pensioners poorer so that
between 1979 and 1997, the gap between the richest and the poorest pensioners increased. The incomes of the richest pensioners rose by 80 per cent., while those of the poorest increased by only 30 per cent.Through their plans to abolish parts of the social fund, the Tories have demonstrated again that they are not interested in pensioners or anybody who is on low pay and in need of help. When Conservative Front-Bench Members make their winding-up speeches, I hope that they will identify the exact benefits, which are currently available through the social fund, that they would abolish, and the sections of the community that would not have access to that important fund.
Despite such a track record, Conservative Members have the cheek to try to con pensioners by proposing a handout, for which money that they already receive in a different form, would pay. Pensioners will not be deceived by that. It is an insult to a generation that deserves much better from all politicians to be used by the Tories for a cheap headline. Pensioners would not benefit from Tory policy.
As for the Liberal Democrats, the hon. Member for Northavon (Mr. Webb) is no longer in his place. That shows that not only their policies have disappeared. If the hon. Gentleman returns while I am speaking, I shall consider the points that he made in his speech.
The Government's actions for pensioners to date should be applauded. The minimum income guarantee ensures that the income of the poorest pensioners is increased so that they are able to live in some dignity. The winter fuel allowance acknowledges that, in winter, pensioners worry about the cost of heating. The allowance of £150 will be paid to all pensioner households from December this year. It ensures that pensioners will not have to choose between heating and other necessities. Restoration of free eye tests for pensioners and the introduction of free television licences for those aged over 75 are important. The Government should be commended for that.
The hon. Member for Northavon has now returned. That gives me the opportunity to comment on his speech. It is no wonder that his colleagues have deserted him. If I were a Liberal Democrat Back Bencher, and had witnessed the hon. Gentleman's inadequate performance, I would also desert him. No Government Front-Bench Member has achieved such a low standard. The hon. Gentleman said that, in 1997, he and his colleagues were elected on a manifesto commitment that no longer exists. I listened carefully to his speech, but he did not outline the new policy. When I return to my constituency and talk to pensioners, I now understand that Liberal Democrats had a policy that they no longer support, but have no policy to replace it. There is a policy vacuum. I am glad that the hon. Gentleman made matters as clear as mud.
Mr. Webb: The hon. Lady has not followed our pension debates closely. Otherwise, she would know about our policy for age additions to the basic state pension, increases across the board for all pensioners and our alternative budget, a costed document, which is produced every year. That is the latest statement of our policy, and it provides precise figures, including those for the increases and the age additions. If the hon. Lady is in any doubt, I am happy to send her a copy.
Ms Ward: That will be a riveting read. The hon. Member for Northavon made it clear in his speech that
the Liberal Democrats' policy had not been determined and that that would happen during a future policy conference. I therefore conclude that if he no longer supports the policy on which he stood for election in 1997, and will not have a confirmed replacement policy until the end of the year, he, like all Liberal Democrats, is in policy limbo.
Mr. Bill Rammell (Harlow): My hon. Friend is right to describe the Liberal Democrat position as a policy vacuum. Does she know that the costed alternative budget contains no costed commitment to the restoration of the link between pensions and earnings? Does she therefore agree that it is dishonest of the Liberal Democrats to claim around the country that they are in favour of restoring the link when they have not costed their commitment to do that?
Ms Ward: It is obvious that my hon. Friend has also faced the difficulties of local Liberal Democrats making claims that are not supported by their national policies or spokespersons.
Mr. Swayne: I, too, have a difficulty.
Ms Ward: Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will allow me to make a little more progress, which will give him even more reason to intervene.
The Government have done a lot for pensioners, but we can do much better. We must do more in the rest of the Parliament. Some people may justify the increase of 75p by comparing it with the retail prices index as it stood. However, while the price of a basket of goods may not have risen significantly, pensioners have faced other increases, even in the past few months, which have not been taken into account. In my area, the council tax and council rents have increased. That may cancel out the benefit of the new money for a section of our pensioner community in the middle-income group, and those who do not rely solely on a state pension, but have a small occupational pension, which takes them over the threshold for entitlement to additional support. Those pensioners could not be described as well off, but they are no longer in the third of the pensioner group that is entitled to additional funding to allow them to live in some dignity.
Unlike the Tories, our aim should be to retain the benefits that we currently pay to pensioners, and to increase the state pension as well. The debate has revealed the focus of the Tories' argument on pensions--not that pensioners should have more money, but that the money that they are already being given by the Government should be given to them in a different fund, from a different source. I approach the matter from a different point of view. I believe that pensioners should continue to receive the benefits that they are gaining from the Labour Government, and that they should have an increase in the basic state pension.
Ms Ward: I give way to the hon. Gentleman. He is so persistent.
Mr. Swayne: I thank the hon. Lady. She is young, intelligent and articulate. There are many other
compliments that I would pay to her, but I ask her to fancy herself as an aged lady, beyond the age of, say, 75, and to ask herself whether she would rather receive a free television licence or the value in cash. Surely it is better to have the cash: if she wanted a television licence, she could purchase one, or she could spend the money on something else that was preferable.
Ms Ward: I am ever grateful for any comments received, even from the hon. Gentleman, although I am not quite that desperate yet. He asks me to picture myself another 50 or 60 years from now. Should he still be on this earth at that time, I would be surprised. He asks me to choose between being given just over £100 or getting a free television licence.
If I pay £101 or £103 for a television licence, I want to receive the equivalent sum. If the licence is given to me free, that is a benefit to me, because it is just over £100 that I do not need to spend from my savings or the income that I receive in a state pension.
Yet again, the Tories have missed the focus of the pensions issue. I say to my right hon. Friend the Minister of State that we need to do a lot more to help pensioners. There is no doubt in my mind that next year, pensions should be uprated significantly--not just by the £2 or £3 that we have heard is likely to come in the increases next April, but by much more than that. The £2 or £3 is linked to prices, so pensioners are already facing those costs.
I want more pensioners to gain more money from the Government. I want the Government to ensure that pensioners get the benefits to which they are entitled. Many hon. Members come across pensioners who do not realise that they are entitled to various benefits and the minimum income guarantee. We need to do much more to take that campaign out to pensioners and to ensure that they get their entitlement.
I welcome the increase in the limit on savings and capital that was introduced in the statement by my right hon. Friend the Chancellor earlier in the year. That limit should be linked, so that we are not reliant on the Government to decide that the limit is out of date. The Tories left the limit at a very low level over a long period.
Pensioners' savings may be money for their funeral or money for a rainy day. It is their security in life. These days, £3,000, £4,000 or £5,000 is not a lot of money for pensioners to have, considering that that may be their only savings and their only support for difficult times.
We should extend some of the other benefits at present under consideration. As my right hon. Friend is aware, in the Transport Bill that has been before the House we are introducing a national concessionary fare scheme. Unfortunately, the terms of the scheme mean that pensioners will gain the minimum of half-fare travel on buses, and only within their own local authority area. Should my granny decide to travel from Scotland to visit me in Watford, she will get a half-fare concession in her own area in Scotland, but she will not be entitled to a half-fare when she comes to Watford.
There should be a truly national concessionary fare scheme, allowing pensioners who travel throughout the country to pay a minimum half-fare, wherever they are. I hope that my right hon. Friend will use his powers of persuasion with our colleagues in other Departments.
We should not take part in the debate with the Tories about existing benefits, arguing over money that pensioners are already getting. Our target should be to do even more for our pensioners. I make no apology for wanting us to do more. We have done a great deal for pensioners in three years--much more than the Tories did in their 18 years in office--but that does not mean that we cannot do more for pensioners in the remaining time of this Parliament.
Pensioners do not have time to wait. Those who have given their lives to this country cannot wait for us to consider what further benefits we feel they are entitled to. This week, we saw the character and the courage of the generation marking the anniversary of Dunkirk.
I know that pensioners in my constituency will not be taken in by the Tories' con, and neither should we be. We should move away from the debate about whether money should be paid through the winter fuel allowance or through pensions. Pensioners should be entitled to both the winter fuel allowance and an uprating in their pension. I urge my right hon. Friend to stand firm on the benefits that have been paid by the Labour Government and opposed by the Opposition. We are still not sure of the Liberal Democrats' views about some of our benefits.
My right hon. Friend should have a strong word with our right hon. Friend the Chancellor about more money for pensioners, to emphasise further the difference between the Government, who really care for pensioners, and the Tories, who are interested only in conning them.
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