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Mr. Heath: Then that is all right. There is a backlog in the correspondence section. One effective means of
reducing the correspondence is to charge £30 to anyone who wants to object, which is the process that we have had to go through.If the Government are to go ahead with listing Chardon LL, the moratorium means nothing. Effectively, there will be no legal barrier to a genetically modified crop being planted commercially. To be plain about it, the industry will take that course. It will lose patience in the end, unless the Government are prepared to take action.
The hon. Member for Nottingham, South (Mr. Simpson) has repeatedly referred to the issue of reliability, and it must be sorted out. We must have a clear understanding of where liability lies so that we do not have to consider whether there is a basis for legal action being taken.
There is no need for superstition, because there are enough scientific concerns. They need to be properly addressed in a neutral way, but with an emphasis on the precautionary principle. We need proper care, good science, good agricultural practice and, above all, openness and information. We have yet to see many advantages from GM crops, but we have already seen some of the disadvantages.
I welcome the new committee, although I do not know how it will find its place in the overcrowded arena of Government responsibility in this area. We may eventually need a system map to find our way round the Government's GM management system.
Mr. Paterson: The hon. Gentleman has just said that we know the disadvantages of GM crops. Will he list them?
Mr. Heath: I am glad that the hon. Gentleman has been listening to my speech with such assiduity. I thought that I had been clear about some of the disadvantages. If he wants to know, perhaps he would like to speak to his hon. Friend the Member for South Suffolk on the Front Bench, who can give him a comprehensive list. I thought that that was the tenor of the Conservative attack. Perhaps we have little local difficulty in this Conservative Opposition day.
I welcome the new testing procedures, the promise to look again at separation distances and the rather belated efforts to support farmers. However, I repeat that the episode has done a lot of damage to the reputation of the Minster and his Ministry, as well as to the cause of biotechnology in this country--although I leave it to others to judge whether that is a good or a bad thing. There is a lack of confidence, not necessarily in the House, but among the public, that the Government have got their heads around the issues surrounding GM technology and the necessary precautions. Over the next year or so, the Government need to persuade the public that they have sorted the problems out, because at the moment they are looking very threadbare.
Mr. Tony Baldry (Banbury): On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I wonder whether you could advise me on to which Committee of the House I should address my concerns. The hon. Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr. Heath) has just spoken for longer than my hon. Friend the Member for South Suffolk (Mr. Yeo) when he introduced the debate. As a consequence, when one takes into account--
Mr. Deputy Speaker (Mr. Michael Lord): Order. The length of time that hon. Members take when they address
the House is entirely a matter for them. Points of order such as this simply reduce the time available for other Members to contribute.
Mr. Baldry: May I finish my point of order?
Mr. Deputy Speaker: No. I have dealt with that point.
5.53 pm
Joan Ruddock (Lewisham, Deptford): I will endeavour to be brief. At the heart of the GM debate is a critical dialogue--or perhaps a lack of dialogue--between science and society. Scientists, particularly technologists, have moved ahead at such a pace that the public are concerned that they cannot keep up and therefore cannot remain in control of some of the things that are most fundamental to their lives--the food that they eat and the environment that they inhabit. All of that is logical. We should never deride the public for their attitudes, even if they have been influenced by the hysteria that has been whipped up at times by certain sections of the media. I have no doubts about the continuing seriousness of the subject at the heart of this debate.
There is also a perception that many GM companies have recklessly rushed to the marketplace without due concern for public sentiment and the potential effects on the environment. I want to put today's debate in that context by asking what Advanta was thinking about. The company could not have been ignorant at any stage of the preparation of the seeds. It could not have doubted the concern of the European public or the actions that have been taken by food retailers. Even when oil is produced from oilseed rape seed with no DNA remains, many retailers insist that the source of the seed is GM-free. Advanta is not ignorant of European law. Indeed, it battles frequently to achieve new licences, to have seeds placed on lists and to acquire new patents. It was completely clear that no licence existed for the commercial sale in the United Kingdom of the GM seeds in question nor the products arising from them.
My argument, therefore, is that the company had a clear duty of care. The seeds were grown in seed crops in Canada. Advanta would have been able to ascertain that GM crops were being grown in the same region in which the crops were being grown to produce conventional seed. The company must be as aware as any hon. Member of all the scientific literature on cross-contamination of oilseed rape. It must also have been clear that the particular GM crops grown in the area were those that were resistant to the Round-up herbicide developed by Monsanto. Contamination of Advanta's seed crops by GM seed of that particular type was, therefore, a real possibility.
Either Advanta should have taken care to test its seeds, or it has to bear a responsibility for knowing all that it knew and choosing not to test and, therefore, risk the possibility that it marketed contaminated seeds. Seed purity tests were available to the company, and in making the sales it did and discovering subsequently--if it was subsequently--that the seed was contaminated, it had an absolute responsibility to inform its suppliers the moment that it had the facts and to trace and inform the farmers who had planted, or had ready for planting, those seeds.
Advanta also had a responsibility to inform the Government, but informing the Government is not equivalent to passing the responsibility and liability from
the company to the Government. That responsibility and liability remains with the company. I have gone on record and criticised the Government for the delay in bringing the information into the public domain. However, I have not the slightest doubt about the motivation that led my right hon. Friend the Minister to do what he did in that intervening period. His motivation was wholly good and honourable, and I have no reason to question his integrity. There is no reason or justification for the Opposition motion today or the scurrilous attacks that have been made on my right hon. Friend.My right hon. Friend has set out clearly the steps that he took and perhaps the criticism that can be made is that he was overly cautious, that he tried to get everything in place and that he wanted to know exactly what the facts were, who might be affected and where the liability lay before he came to the House to give, in his words, balanced and accurate advice to farmers and consumers. That is honourable, but I hope that he will realise with hindsight that such is the sensitivity of the public to those matters that it might be more sensible in any future occurrence--which we hope does not happen--to be less cautious and to give the information before everything is in place. I accept that there may be consequences from doing that. What is clear is that there was nothing to cover up and no attempt to cover up anything.
However, there are lessons to be learned from what has happened, and I turn to them now. My right hon. Friend the Minister has spoken about the presence of oilseed rape that is genetically modified, and the advice of English Nature. It would be helpful if the Government tried to find out what traces remain of the 1999 crop. Only the male plants are sterile, so some adventitious fertilisation and seed production from the previous crop is likely. The result would be fully grown plants able to produce pollen. He may find nothing, but I hope that my right hon. Friend will look into that important matter.
Another issue involves the seeds that may remain after the safe harvesting and destruction of contaminated crops this year. I hope that steps are taken to determine what can be done about those seeds and to ensure that they are destroyed. I understand that English Nature has advised that spraying be undertaken, and that that may be necessary. However, I hope and expect that further checks will be made, so that we can reassure farmers and the public that there is no remaining contamination.
I hope also that my right hon. Friend will determine the true level of contamination in this country. It has been estimated at 1 per cent., although I believe that Advanta hoped that it was less than that. If checks are being carried out already, I hope that the results will be made known. It has been suggested that in some parts of Sweden, for example, 2.6 per cent. of the conventional seed stock was contaminated. That is worrying.
I hope that my hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham, South (Mr. Simpson) catches your eye later, Mr. Deputy Speaker, as he is one of those who support the introduction of strict liability. I do not believe that any case can be made for tolerating the confusion that arose in this case. It must be made absolutely clear that the liability in such matters rests with the company. I believe that that is the case in this instance, but the matter needs to be codified.
With regard to seed purity, I know that many people want to suggest that, because 1 per cent. contamination is accepted in food for labelling purposes, a parallel level of
contamination in seeds could be acceptable. I do not agree, as there is no equivalence. Seeds are planted into the environment, and the living plants that they produce will have a continuing effect in that environment. There is no room to tolerate any percentage of contamination. It can be prevented, and companies must be made to prevent it. Our farmers must be sure that the products that they buy are the ones that they seek, and that they are the ones that they can plant.Time does not permit me to say all that I want to say on this subject. I believe that we can all learn from this regrettable incident--the Government, scientists, environmentalists and the public at large. Science is not absolute, as we know. We will receive the test results of our trials in due course, and the political debate will continue. However, we must be mature in that debate and understand that absolute control is not possible all the time.
We need transparency and rational argument. My right hon. Friend the Minister has dealt with the matter and brought it to a sensible conclusion for the moment. I am sure that he will have in hand what is needed for the future, and that he will ensure that farmers do not lose out as a result of this event.
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