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Mr. Maclean: My right hon. Friend may find that that eventuality is covered by an Act introduced in the previous Parliament by our colleague, Dr. Robert Spink, who received incredible help from a thoughtful Home Office Minister of State. After suitable parliamentary debate, that measure reached the statute book, and it deals with most of those problems.
Mr. Forth: Our admiration for that helpful Minister is unstinting and we remember him with great fondness. We have explanations for most of the problems that were identified, although I have raised some additional questions for the Minister. However, we should not be under the illusion that the Bill means that nobody under 18 can enjoy an alcoholic beverage, because proposed new section 169D provides exceptions for persons under 18 but over the age of 16. The promoter of the Bill explained the position in an earlier speech, but--intriguingly--exceptions apply to beer, porter and cider, and also to the purchase
- for consumption at a meal in a part of the licensed premises which is not a bar and is usually set apart for the service of meals.
I have some doubts whether we are likely to have effective prosecutions under proposed new section 169F. It is probable that prosecutions will be possible in the case of a direct relationship between the person doing the purchasing, the receipt of the goods and the person doing the selling. However, will that happen in the case of a person who
- knowingly delivers to a person under eighteen?
- knowingly allows any person to deliver to a person under eighteen?
- authority to prevent the delivery.
I apologise for getting the issue of test purchasing wrong earlier in the day, but I am still unhappy about one aspect of it. My hon. Friend the Member for Gainsborough and my right hon. Friend the Member for Penrith and The Border (Mr. Maclean) expressed their support for it, but I fear for the welfare and wellbeing of the young person used in the exercise. Before I acquiesce in the use of test purchasing, which is strongly hinted at in the White Paper, I wish to be satisfied that adequate protections will be provided to young people used to make test purchases, be that parental consent or other involvement of an adult or guardian. My fear is that the police or authorities will, with good intentions, persuade a young person to perform an act that could have an adverse effect on that young person. I accept the comment
by the hon. Member for Garston that test purchasing has been performed for a long time and is very successful, but I would like to know more about the effects on the young people involved.My right hon. and hon. Friends have mentioned proposed new section 169H, but I wish to add that the Bill mentions various participants in the acts in question--such as the person making the purchase, the licensee, the agents or employees, paid or unpaid--with various ramifications and, therefore, we should have more than one level of fine. I congratulate the hon. Member for Pudsey on doing a great service to his constituents and more widely in sponsoring this Bill. I wish it well and it will have my support on Third Reading.
11.25 am
Ms Chris McCafferty (Calder Valley): Not surprisingly, I have a strong feeling of deja vu in speaking in this debate. To be able to sponsor a private Member's Bill is a privilege and I was grateful for the opportunity to present a similar Bill last year. I regarded the measures it contained as urgent and necessary. My Bill followed a ten-minute Bill tabled by my hon. Friend the Member for Pudsey (Mr. Truswell), and I pay tribute to his consistent efforts in raising awareness of licensing issues in relation to children and young persons, which are now being addressed in his Bill.
The Bill will create new barriers to children gaining access to alcohol. It has the backing of the Portman Group, which represents the alcohol industry, and it proposes several measures, including closing a legal loophole that allows the courts to distinguish between the liability of the licensee and his or her employees by providing that anyone who makes a sale to a minor is liable to prosecution. The Bill will also create a new offence of proxy purchasing if someone over the age of 18 purchases alcohol for a minor--which is already a long-standing offence in Scotland.
I, too, became aware of the legal loophole through the death of David Knowles from the neighbouring constituency of Pudsey. He was bright boy in the top six at school for maths, and his ambition was to be a bank manager. His father described David as a serious young man who had acted completely out of character. He said that David might have got away with looking 15 in a bad light, but was obviously under age. David's father has said that if alcohol is sold to children, it is obvious to every right-thinking person that they could do damage to themselves, to others and to property. However, there is nothing to stop people selling alcohol to children, either out of carelessness or just to make a profit.
As we have heard this morning, even though the police seized video footage showing that David was served twice in the same off-licence, the prosecution of the staff collapsed because the licence holder did not directly employ them. That has exposed a large gap in the law that allows people who sell alcohol to young people to escape prosecution where, as is increasingly common in bigger chains, they are employed by a parent company, not by the licensee or the manager. Thousands of staff in off-licences and supermarkets can sell alcohol to children without fear of prosecution because of that loophole.
David's parents were distraught when they realised that no one could be brought to justice for selling their son the alcohol that led directly to his death. The Bill will close that loophole. It provides that anyone who makes a sale to a minor is liable to prosecution.
To tackle the problem of young people of 18 who buy alcohol legitimately and then pass it on to friends, the Bill creates a new offence that makes it unlawful for someone to buy alcohol in shops and off licences on behalf of a young person. It will also penalise passing adults who are prevailed on to make purchases for young people. An equivalent provision has existed in Scottish law since 1976. The proposed provision is intended to target adults who, whether they are known to the child or are strangers, will agree, often outside or close to a licensed premises, to buy alcohol to be passed on immediately to a child in the street.
A survey carried out by Professor Howard Parker of Manchester university in 1996 found that, of a representative sample of 13 to 16-year-olds in greater Manchester, 25 per cent. purchased alcohol for themselves, but that 53 per cent. obtained alcohol by asking older friends to buy it for them, and that 26 per cent. obtained alcohol by asking strangers to buy it for them. Of that latter group, there was a prevalence of girls, and of 13 to 14-year-olds. The dangers inherent in such vulnerable young girls approaching strangers for favours must be immediately obvious to hon. Members.
Mr. Peter Viggers (Gosport): I am following the hon. Lady's speech with interest. What will the Bill do to prevent the nuisance and mischief that she has just described?
Ms McCafferty: The Bill will make proxy purchase an offence. That will ensure that adults think very carefully before they allow themselves to be prevailed on by minors to buy alcohol on their behalf in off-licences, stores and supermarkets.
A number of benefits will follow from making proxy purchase an offence. It will clearly act as a deterrent to those who knowingly purchase alcohol on behalf of people under 18--as long as effective penalties are in place and the law is shown to be enforced. The low rates of prosecution in Scotland mean that many people there do not take the proxy purchase law very seriously. That should not deter support for the principle of the offence, but rather it should convince the Government and the responsible authorities that the offence must be backed up with adequate enforcement.
Secondly, it will lead to reductions in the levels of under-age misuse, provided that the legislation is accompanied by effective public education campaigning. That should aim to increase the awareness of the existence of the offence of proxy purchase, and to influence public attitudes, so that the purchase of alcohol on behalf of under-18s is regarded as morally and socially unacceptable, just as drink-driving is now considered to be morally reprehensible.
The Bill also complements the provisions of the Confiscation of Alcohol (Young Persons) Act 1997, which was introduced by the former Conservative Member Dr. Robert Spink as a private Member's Bill under the previous Government. Ironically, however, it was finally enacted by this Government. That Act gives
police the power to confiscate alcohol from under-18s who are consuming it--or are thought likely to do so--in public.The Health Education Authority estimates that there are about 190,000 11 to 15-year-olds who regularly drink the equivalent of seven pints a week. It is clear that the figures relating to convictions for under-age purchase of alcohol and sale to minors do not reflect the true extent of the problem. In 1995, only 269 people were found guilty or were cautioned for selling alcohol to under-18s, and 351 people under the age of 18 were found guilty or were cautioned for buying or trying to buy alcohol.
I believe that the introduction of test purchasing would give greater impetus to one or more of the identity schemes currently in existence. In my constituency and in that of my hon. Friend the Member for Halifax (Mrs. Mahon) a total of 2,360 Portman Group cards have been issued to over-18s. I understand that between 5,000 and 10,000 cards a month are issued nationally. I believe that retailers will be much more likely routinely to ask young people to prove their age if they know that they can be subject to test purchasing. I am pleased that the Government are looking at that very carefully.
The vast majority of those who make and sell alcoholic drinks in the UK welcome the provisions of this Bill. Indeed, the call for test purchasing and for an offence of proxy purchase has been supported repeatedly by organisations related to the trade and the industry. The members of the Portman Group are the nine leading drinks manufacturers in the UK, and their work is generally supported throughout the industry and the licensed trade as a whole. Last year, the group submitted a paper in response to the consultation by the Department of Health on alcohol strategy. It called for all the legislative changes proposed in the Bill, and made the point that the measure would complement the progress made in the industry towards tackling alcohol abuse.
There is a great deal of evidence that alcohol sales to minors lead to unsupervised drinking and alcohol abuse that reaches down even to primary school level. Along with many hon. Members and health professionals, I am extremely concerned about the potential adverse effect on physically immature children who often drink well beyond levels recommended for adults.
In my view, under-age drinking is a very serious social problem and people are understandably and justifiably worried about it. I have had many complaints from constituents about the problems caused by the minority of youngsters who get into trouble because of drink. I have campaigned previously about how some drinks--the so-called alcopops--seem to target young people deliberately.
Alcopops are not the only drinks illegally obtained by youngsters, but they represent a very worrying trend. Many are especially dangerous because their strength is masked by fruit or other flavours. That breaks down awareness of the alcohol content and children's traditional taste threshold. Equally worrying is the fact that many such drinks are fashion items, packaged and marketed in a way that is attractive to teenagers and even to younger children.
Education about alcohol is already a specific and statutory requirement for schools as part of the national curriculum, but it is as much the responsibility of parents
and carers as it is of teachers and youth workers to ensure that young people who drink under their supervision consume alcohol in safe quantities.Dr. Lynne Friedli, the Health Education Authority's alcohol programme manager, has said:
- Drinking is such a central part of our social life today that parents may sometimes underestimate the harm it can do. While they are understandably worried about illegal drugs, it is important to realise the range of problems that alcohol can cause their children.
The measures in this Bill will give the police and the courts real powers to stamp out the problem, and especially to tackle the minority of irresponsible retailers and adults who either deliberately flout the law, or simply turn a blind eye to under-age sales. The measures represent a great improvement in the range of measures that are available to tackle under-age alcohol misuse.
I pay tribute to the liquor and retail industries for their readiness to address the social problems arising from the products that they sell and for their support for the Bill. However, there must be no let-up in the fight against under-age drinking and the misery that it causes.
I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Pudsey on introducing this Bill and on having the tenacity to see it through this far. I commend the Bill to the House.
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