| Previous Section | Index | Home Page |
6.45 pm
The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Mr. Keith Vaz): This has been a good debate, which has examined the agenda for the conference at Santa Maria da Feira next week. Some Opposition Members did not know where Feira was. I can assure them that it is in Portugal and Portugal is in the EU.
Like my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary, I pay tribute to the Portuguese presidency for its work during the past six months. The fact that we are following the successful conference at Lisbon with the upcoming Feira council shows the work that has been put in by the Portuguese, and we are grateful for what they have done.
We have had some excellent speeches, including those from my hon. Friend the Member for Swansea, East (Mr. Anderson), who is the Chairman of the Select Committee on Foreign Affairs, and my hon. Friends the Members for Wimbledon (Mr. Casale) and for East Carmarthen and Dinefwr (Mr. Williams). My right hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill (Mr. Davis) rightly mentioned the problems faced in the Council of Europe and the Western European Union, and I pay tribute to him for his work in both organisations. It is good that Javier Solana suggested that he come to this debate to raise those points, because that emphasises the Government's firm commitment to ensuring that defence issues remain an issue for this Parliament. I promise to write to my right hon. Friend on the staffing issues that he raised. He will understand why I do not deal with them today.
My hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton, South-West (Ms Jones) raised the charter of rights, with which I shall deal. I also pay tribute to the right hon. and learned Member for North-East Fife (Mr. Campbell) for his usual eloquent and cogent contribution to debates such as this.
We had amusing, witty and whimsical contributions from my right hon. Friend the Member for Llanelli (Mr. Davies) and my hon. Friend the Member for Great Grimsby (Mr. Mitchell). I am so glad that my hon. Friend the Member for Great Grimsby took the opportunity, once and for all, to stamp on the suggestion made by Lord Tebbit that I had written to him and scribbled on the bottom in green ink that we were coming to get him. My hon. Friend has been waiting to make that public denunciation of Lord Tebbit for some time and I thank him for what he has said. My hon. Friend the Member for Luton, North (Mr. Hopkins) also made a good contribution on the single currency.
From the Opposition, we had a moving and eloquent contribution from the right hon. Member for Skipton and Ripon (Mr. Curry). I am sorry that I was not able to hear his entire contribution, but I was speaking elsewhere on a long-standing engagement with the right hon. and learned Member for Rushcliffe (Mr. Clarke) on European matters, but I know that it was extremely well received by the House and I thank him for what he said.
As usual, the hon. Member for Wycombe (Sir R. Whitney) made a good contribution. He rightly reminded us and his Front-Bench spokesmen that, if some Conservative Members followed the course of action that they wanted to follow on Europe--Mr. Sykes's road--Britain would be left a shrinking little island.
The hon. Member for Esher and Walton (Mr. Taylor) talked about a timetable. My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary rightly said that the timetable is the IGC. There is no point in setting timetables for the applicant states unless we get our act together. That is why we have set a strict timetable for the completion of the IGC by December 2000. Clearly, individual countries will have their own timetables. It would not be right to raise expectations, but each applicant wants to join the EU as quickly as possible, and we in the UK are doing everything that we possibly can to help, assist and ensure that that happens.
Mr. David Drew (Stroud): Understandably, at least on the Government Benches, much of the debate has taken thoughtful account of the views of Mr. Paul Sykes. Would my hon. Friend care to comment on my predecessor, the former Member of Parliament for Stroud, who announced at the end of May that he could no longer stay within the Conservative party and joined the UK Independent party, because, he said, he could no longer accept "the bogus premise" behind the Tory argument, and he felt that the policies put forward by William Hague "do not mean anything"? Who does my hon. Friend think is the more principled individual?
Mr. Vaz: It is a difficult choice. Both Conservative Front-Bench spokesmen talked about forks in the road; perhaps they should have spoken about knives in the road.
The usual suspects also took part in the debate. Our good friend the hon. Member for Boston and Skegness (Sir R. Body) chided my hon. Friend the Member for Great Grimsby for entering his constituency without telling him. I assure the hon. Gentleman that Boston and Skegness remains in the European Union.
Sir Richard Body: The hon. Member for Great Grimsby (Mr. Mitchell) is always most courteous. He has always notified me in advance and he is always welcome.
Mr. Vaz: I am sure that my hon. Friend will be pleased to hear that. It is good of the hon. Member for Boston and Skegness to extend that invitation.
The hon. Member for Stone (Mr. Cash) is cross with the right hon. Member for Horsham (Mr. Maude). He goes on about the Maastricht treaty, of which I have a copy. He should know who signed it: the right hon. Member for Horsham. It is no good the hon. Member for Stone complaining to the Government about the Maastricht
treaty and the fact that there was no referendum on it. He should address his comments to St. Francis of Maastricht--the right hon. Gentleman who signed the treaty. He says that he is not in favour of flexibility. Again, he should address his remarks to St. Francis of Maastricht. The right hon. Member for Horsham is the biggest supporter of flexibility. There is no point in complaining to us about those policies. He should make an appointment to see the right hon. Member for Horsham.My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary underlined the fact that Feira is an important way forward after the enormous success of Lisbon. Feira will build on the tremendous achievements of the Lisbon conference. It will re-emphasise the United Kingdom's important role in Europe: in the driving seat, leading Europe and being part of the most important decision-making processes.
Mr. Maude: Will the Minister give way?
Mr. Vaz: I give way to St. Francis.
Mr. Maude: I am grateful to the Minister for bestowing a halo on me--I am sure that it is richly deserved. Earlier, I asked the Foreign Secretary whether, following the verbiage and persiflage of the Lisbon summit, he could give three examples of legislation that had been improved to help the lot of small businesses. There has been plenty of time in which to provide some examples. I mean genuine changes, such as matters that have been deregulated to help businesses.
Mr. Vaz: Before 10 o'clock tonight, I will give the right hon. Gentleman 25 examples. I will stick them in a letter and put them on the board. I am sure that he does not want me to repeat them now.
Let us consider the contribution of the right hon. Member for Horsham. What a disgrace, for a speech from the Front Bench. He spent 14 minutes expressing a negative attitude towards the European Union. I appreciate that Mr. Sykes is going to bankroll the save the pound campaign, but every comment of the right hon. Gentleman was negative and critical of membership of the European Union. He says that he will veto the treaty of Nice if it has an integrationist agenda. I assure him that the treaty of Nice will signify the work in preparation for the IGC.
The right hon. Gentleman wants the IGC to take place after enlargement. That is one of the silliest suggestions that I have ever heard. Let us imagine allowing 13 applicant countries into the European Union and subsequently changing the composition of the Council, the number of Commissioners and the re-weighting on the Council and considering qualified majority voting. That is ridiculous. However, it is interesting if that is Conservative policy.
I was pleased to hear, at last, a mea culpa from the right hon. Gentleman about his decision to sign the Maastricht treaty. He said that he was a reformed man. The sinner repents. He now believes that referendums should be held before such treaties are signed. He did not hold a referendum, but he believes that it should be done now. That is a substantial change of policy.
The right hon. Gentleman mentioned the visits that I have made throughout the United Kingdom. The Foreign Secretary and I believe that it is extremely important not
just to go to Berlin to make a few speeches, but to go round the country and meet the citizens of the United Kingdom and to talk to them about the benefits of European Union membership. At least my means of transport do not break down, unlike the right hon. Gentleman's truck, which broke down when he went to France. That shows that the Tories cannot even get their transport policy in order, let alone their European policy.
Mr. Vaz: I am glad that the hon. Gentleman has got to his feet. He should learn to read to the ends of paragraphs before he starts quoting from Select Committee reports. He quoted a tiny bit of evidence. If he reads paragraphs 264, 265, 266, 267 and 268 of the evidence and the paragraph to which he referred, he will know that I have made it absolutely clear that this charter is to be a showcase of existing rights, that it is to be a showcase and not a launch pad, and that we consider that a declaration is better than any other course of action. We have said that from the very start. The Prime Minister has said it, the Foreign Secretary has said it, and I have said it. We have made it absolutely clear that this is to be a declaration.
My hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton, South-West does not agree with that, but we believe that it is the best course of action. We do not believe that the charter of rights should go beyond existing rights. It should be consistent with existing rights. It should be binding now if those rights are binding now, and there should be no extension. That view is shared by many member states in the convention and beyond, so there is no question of us having even to consider a veto. In the end, it will be a matter for the member states and not for the convention. I pay tribute to the work of Lord Goldsmith, Lord Bowness and my hon. Friend the Member for Bridgend (Mr. Griffiths).
On the euro, the hon. Member for West Suffolk (Mr. Spring) said that the Foreign Secretary had changed his speech. My right hon. Friend did nothing of the kind.
Do Conservative Members want to hear this all the time? The hon. Member for Esher and Walton referred to it as a mantra. I shall repeat the mantra. Five economic tests were laid down by the Chancellor in 1997. Early in the next Parliament, we will assess those tests, and we will put the issue to the British people. In the end, there will be a referendum.The decision will not be taken by Paul Sykes or by the shadow Cabinet. The Labour party believes in leaving such matters to the British people in a referendum--just the sort of thing that the right hon. Member for Horsham and the hon. Member for Stone were talking about. We believe that the British people should decide those issues, and only if they decide that we should do so will we enter the euro.
That view is shared by every member of the Cabinet. There are no camps in the Cabinet. There is one clear Government policy that we have repeated time and again. I am pleased to hear from the right hon. Member for Horsham that he found my right hon. Friend's performance reassuring. He is reassuring. When he comes to the Dispatch Box, he reassures the nation. When he goes abroad, he reassures Europe and the world. When the right hon. Member for Horsham goes abroad to Berlin, he causes havoc. That is why it is important that we restate our policy.
It is also important to make a final point about defence. There is no better supporter of our policy on defence than President Clinton. NATO remains the bedrock of our defence policy. The United States of America is relaxed about, and comfortable with, the important measures that we are taking to help the defence of Europe. Of course our NATO allies outside the European Union are being consulted: the dialogue is continuing all the time. We look forward to Feira. We believe that it is an opportunity yet again to state our central position in Europe.
It being Seven o'clock, the motion for the Adjournment of the House lapsed, without Question put.
| Next Section
| Index | Home Page |