| Previous Section | Index | Home Page |
Miss Ann Widdecombe (Maidstone and The Weald): I thank the Home Secretary for that statement and for his
courtesy in giving me notice of it. I associate Conservative Members with his extension of sympathy to the relatives of those who died, and with his congratulations to the various statutory authorities on the way in which they and the individuals who uncovered this appalling tragedy reacted with great professionalism.I am aware that the right hon. Gentleman cannot give many details at this stage, but he will know that one of the major points of concern must be the degree of international co-operation that does or does not prevail in trying to prevent this trade, and the rigour of checks carried out outside this country. If he is not yet able to state the point of origin of the vehicle's journey, will he at least tell the House either where the last check was carried out before Dover and the results of that check, or whether any such check took place?
Does the Home Secretary agree that the rigour of checking outside Britain is not what it might be? To assist lorry drivers in their duty to check their vehicles, will he put pressure on other Governments to provide secure and well-lit areas in which drivers can carry out those checks? Is he aware that, during ferry crossings, drivers are compulsorily separated from their vehicles? Has he any plans to institute checks by immigration officials during ferry crossings when, it is claimed, many transfers of human beings from one vehicle to another take place?
Bearing in mind that many will think that the tragedy has been waiting to happen, will the Home Secretary state how many instances there have been in the past 12 months of 20 or more clandestines in a single vehicle being detected at our ports? Is that an increasing, a decreasing, or a stable trend? Will he also provide some indication of when, subject to the limits that I understand entirely, he will be able to release to the House further details of the vehicle's journey, its origins and its consequences?
Mr. Straw: I am grateful to the right hon. Lady for her association with my expression of great sympathy for the relatives of those who died. I know that the whole House will join in the congratulations on and appreciation of the work of the Kent police--many civilian scenes of crime officers were involved, as well as police officers--the immigration service and Customs. It must have been deeply traumatic for the staff who found the people and subsequently had to deal with the matter.
The right hon. Lady asked about the degree of international co-operation. We are all the time seeking to improve international co-operation against the traffic in illegal immigrants. As the House may know, I was in Lisbon on Friday last, discussing with colleagues who are Ministers of the Interior how we improve co-ordination of our immigration and asylum policies across Europe, to try to bring an end what has correctly been described as asylum shopping between one member state and another.
Early on in this Administration, carriers' liability was imposed by me on Eurostar trains from Brussels, with the full agreement of the then Minister of the Interior in Belgium, Mr. Van de Lanotte. As the right hon. Lady may also know, we recently signed a protocol to the Sangatte treaty in respect of Eurostar traffic from France to ensure that we can impose what are called juxtaposed controls and to have British immigration officers checking those who board Eurostar trains at Gare du Nord, Calais and Lille, in return for French immigration officials doing the same on this side of the channel. Until that comes into
force--it is a matter of procedure in the French Parliament--there will be enhanced controls for Eurostar by the French police and other authorities on the French side.We are always taking other measures. With regard to Zeebrugge, security there has generally been significantly better than that at Calais. We are involved in continuing discussions with the port authorities at Calais, and with the hauliers and ferry operators. The right hon. Lady and the House may wish to know that I had a meeting this morning--he has agreed that I should say this--with Lord Sterling, the chairman of P&O Ferries, about the measures that we could take to improve security at Dover.
The right hon. Lady asked when the last check was made before Dover. I cannot give her an answer on that, but I shall do my best to provide her with an answer as soon as I have the information.
As to the rigours of checking outside the United Kingdom, in some cases checks are, by definition, rigorous and they work. For example, with the co-operation of the Italian authorities, we have improved the checking on freight trains which are assembled in freight yards in Milan and then come straight through the tunnel. That has helped to detect and deter quite a large number of east European illegals seeking to gain access to the trains there. I accept entirely that there is a great need for other countries to improve the checking of vehicles coming into the United Kingdom.
The right hon. Lady said that she understands that drivers are not allowed on the freight decks of ferries. That is true, because it is a matter of health and safety. However, from time to time we provide immigration officials as part of operations better to detect illegals.
The right hon. Lady also asked whether I can give the numbers of those who have been detected in the back of vehicles, where the groups were 20 or more. I need notice of that question, but I shall be happy to provide her with the information as soon as possible.
As soon as I can, consistent with the integrity of the criminal investigation, I shall provide the right hon. Lady and the House with further information.
Mr. Gwyn Prosser (Dover): I thank my right hon. Friend for his tribute to the authorities in Dover--the police, Customs and immigration officers. May I add to that list the ambulance workers of Kent, who were faced with horrific scenes this morning--scenes and stories that have yet to be told, but which are the stuff of nightmares?
I welcome my right hon. Friend's commitment to further co-operation overseas, not just in Europe but worldwide, because the problem is a global one.
Does my right hon. Friend agree that it is important to distinguish between the victims--innocent parties who sometimes find themselves washed up on the coasts of Dover, scrambling out of the backs of lorries, having fled oppression, fear of death and torture; we will always support and give asylum to them--and the racketeers and professional crooks, who simply exploit the situation for their own benefit?
Mr. Straw: I am grateful for my hon. Friend's comments. I should have paid tribute to the ambulance personnel in Kent earlier. I want to do that now, and correct the omission.
My hon. Friend is right about the increasing co-operation, which we need. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister is raising the terrible incident, its consequences and the need for heightened European and international co-operation with fellow Heads of Government today at the Feira Council.
My hon. Friend spoke of the distinction that we must make between--I paraphrase--those who are genuine asylum seekers, although they have had to use illegal means to gain entry into the United Kingdom, and the racketeers and professional crooks who stand behind them. I agree. However, one of the problems that the United Kingdom--and almost every other European country--faces is that although between 20 and 30 per cent. of people who seek entry into the United Kingdom have a genuine, well-founded claim to refugee status, the claims of many of the rest, who come here for what they regard as a better life, have no basis in the 1951 convention. They are better classified as economic migrants. A further tragedy, which has been illustrated only too well today, is that those people are given all sorts of promises about the life they will find in this country. Even if they get through alive, they are often sorely disappointed when they arrive.
Mr. Simon Hughes (Southwark, North and Bermondsey): I share the horror and sympathy that the Home Secretary has expressed at the unnecessary loss of life. Those who died were, in all likelihood, the victims of other people's misdeeds. I share with the Home Secretary and colleagues from all parties the view that the international policing systems should track the traffickers in human life to the ends of the earth, if necessary, to ensure that they are caught, and punished as severely as possible. If the Home Secretary believes that the penalty system should be reviewed at home and across Europe, we would be happy to participate in that.
We have never received an answer from the Government about the way in which people can seek asylum lawfully in western European countries. Unless there is a lawful way for people to make an application and come to a country that might accept them, they must use illegal means and put themselves in the hands of those who will exploit them. That was shown yesterday.
There was a report two months ago about a system for scanning all vehicles to detect whether there are human beings in them. Is the system sufficiently advanced at ports of departure and entry in Britain and all other European countries for ships and trains? With such a system, we could check all vehicles for people as well as for Customs and Excise contraband, just as our luggage is checked when we travel by air.
Mr. Straw: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his association with the remarks that I made early in my statement. He mentioned the need for better international policing. We are improving co-operation within Europe gradually, although not fast enough. We have some way to go before we have properly sensitised several other Governments, especially some of those in Asia, about the need for their full co-operation in practice as well as in principle, and about the steps that they must help to initiate to prevent this terrible traffic.
The hon. Gentleman asked how those with a genuine and well-founded claim for asylum could make that claim without effectively breaking the immigration rules, and often the criminal law, of the receiving state. The answer to that at the moment is, "With very great difficulty", unless they have previously gained lawful entry to the United Kingdom, and subsequent to that entry there has been a change in the circumstances of the home country. I sought to make exactly that point in a speech to fellow Interior Ministers in Lisbon last week, and I urge Members to consider it.
I said in that speech that a contradiction lay at the heart not of the obligation under the 1951 convention, but of the way in which it operates. We need to discuss the issue rationally, because the current system is irrational. I say that having also said that I regard our obligation to give refuge to those in well-founded fear of persecution as absolute. We must look at better ways of achieving that, so that we do not end up--and I am afraid that the operation of the 1951 convention leads to such a result--inadvertently pushing people, whether they have a genuine and well-founded fear or are simply economic migrants, into the hands of these terrible facilitators.
The hon. Gentleman asked about systems for scanning vehicles. The immigration service currently uses dogs, which have proved remarkably effective, and carbon dioxide detectors. It has been proposed that the service should also have access to major X-ray facilities. It is open to experiment, and I know that the proposal is also currently the subject of an inquiry by the Home Affairs Committee.
| Next Section
| Index | Home Page |