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Mr. Robin Corbett (Birmingham, Erdington): Were not the appalling events at Dover murder in all but name by those who traffic illegally in human beings, and bring them across continents knowingly to break our immigration laws? May I urge my right hon. Friend to continue his efforts to secure agreement throughout the European Union that applications for asylum in this country can be made in the first safe country in which those seeking it arrive, rather than their having--knowingly, and sometimes as victims of those who engage in this vile people traffic--to put themselves in the hands of the traffickers in order to get here and make their applications?
Mr. Straw: Yes. The central principle of the Dublin convention, which came into force in October 1997, is supposed to be that applicants are required to make their applications in the first safe country in which they arrive within the European Union. Except in the case of those who arrive here by air, and the handful who go on from here to the Republic of Ireland, that country can never be the United Kingdom. Another major challenge that we face is to ensure that the practice of the Dublin convention matches the theory.
Mr. Tom King (Bridgwater): It appears that the introduction of fines has had some real impact on what might be called the more casual form of illegal immigration racketeering, but is there not a lesson to be learned from this awful tragedy? It appears to have had no impact whatsoever on the organised gangster system that has led to substantial numbers of people seeking to become illegal immigrants.
The Home Secretary recently went to Dover--as did the Intelligence and Security Committee--and saw for himself just what a daunting task is involved, given the volume of lorries, the other ports that exist and the containers. He must have realised the simple impossibility of making effective checks. The only way in which the position can be challenged is by means of determined international collaboration, bringing together the law enforcement agencies and, in particular, the intelligence and security resources of all the countries concerned. That is the only way in which traffic can be identified, and the only way in which we shall have some real chance of apprehending those involved.
Mr. Straw: I understand the right hon. Gentleman's point that the civil penalty is more likely to have had a significant effect on hauliers when proper checks have failed to be made, but I think it far too early to say that it has had no effect on criminal facilitators. As we are now seeing, the fact that those penalties are being imposed has put pressure on the hauliers and on ports abroad significantly to improve their checking and security. That can only help us in ensuring that there is better detection of these people.
On the right hon. Gentleman's second point, I agree: the scale of traffic in and out of Dover is such that it is not possible--nor is it necessary--to check every vehicle. As with other criminal activities, we increasingly rely on good intelligence. As I have told the House, the vehicle was intercepted not by accident, but as a result of good intelligence and of a Customs operation. We continue to ensure that the National Criminal Intelligence Service, the Security Service and the other agencies make available to the immigration service and to Customs their great expertise in both detecting and disrupting the criminal gangs.
Mr. Jeremy Corbyn (Islington, North): I join the Home Secretary in expressing deepest sympathy over the deaths of all those people at Dover and in condemning the racketeers who have brought people to that terrible pass, but will he consider the fact that it is not the first such tragedy? Not so many years ago, a ship capsized off Italy. A very large number of supposedly illegal immigrants drowned as a result. Many are washed up on the shores of Europe all the time--people come into Europe by all sorts of means.
Following that terrible tragedy, in which more than 50 lives were lost, is it not time that the world learned that people who are seeking to escape from political, social or economic tragedies and repression adopt desperate measures to get out? Perhaps we should start to look at human rights abuses, in both their widest and narrowest forms, in the countries from which people seek to escape before we start to take even more draconian measures, which I suspect will end up victimising very many more innocent people. Another such tragedy might well happen again.
Mr. Straw: My hon. Friend is right to say that it is not the first tragedy. Nor, I fear, will it be the last. Of course we understand the motives of those who seek asylum in countries of western Europe, whether because of a well-founded fear of persecution or because they are economic migrants, but we must also get it across to them that there will be severe dangers--in some cases, of
death--if they get involved with the criminal facilitators. The last people in the world who have any regard for human rights are those criminal facilitators. They do not care about the human rights of those whom they are trafficking; they care only about their profits.On the wider issue, I agree with my hon. Friend that western European countries in particular, along with other countries in the west, should do much more to try to reduce the push factors of civil and political disruption, and other problems, in a number of states. Indeed, that was part of the purpose of my speech in Lisbon last week.
Mr. Mike Hancock (Portsmouth, South): Will the Home Secretary consider widening the British Government's involvement in the Normandy ports of Le Havre, Cherbourg and Caen--which bring many heavy vehicles to the south coast of Great Britain--and, in particular, look at the issue raised at Le Havre, where many vehicles are left unattended for long periods outside secure areas? Is he satisfied that the fines being levied against drivers and others for that trade are sufficiently severe to deter them? The going rate is now $1,000 or DM2,000 per person, so there is a lot of money to be made. Will he address the issue in Belgium and France in particular, and in Italy? The authorities there know well where the organisers of the rackets are and where the trafficking goes on, yet persist in doing little or nothing to bring to justice the people who are behind it.
Mr. Straw: As I said in my answer to the right hon. Member for Maidstone and The Weald (Miss Widdecombe), we are working hard with the Belgian, French, Dutch and Italian authorities to improve the security of vehicles--whether they be road or railway vehicles--leaving their ports; some freight trains leave the so-called port of a freight yard outside Milan. We are working very hard with them to improve their security. As I said, one thing that the civil penalty has done is greatly to improve the incentive for those ports and hauliers to improve security. The previous criticism of the civil penalty was that the fine of £2,000 per head was too large, not too small. However, we are always open to review fines.
I am aware of the stories about the Belgian, French and Italian authorities. We have, however, been able to achieve considerable co-operation and understanding from the Belgian, French, Italian and other authorities. Every country in western Europe, with the almost single and singular exception of Portugal, has a major problem both of asylum seekers--some genuine, but many unfounded--and wholly undocumented illegal immigrants.
Mr. Dale Campbell-Savours (Workington): My right hon. Friend said that we could not be told very much until the criminal investigation had been conducted. However, could we not be told some very elementary things, such as what the tachograph and the freight manifest show? Is it not true that one could not get many more than 60 people inside a refrigerated box van? Does not that fact suggest that there was no freight in the van? Could we not have answers now to some fairly simple questions?
Mr. Straw: As the House would expect, I have spoken to the chief constable of Kent in anticipation of this statement. As everyone would expect, he is very concerned that information that is sensitive and that could, if released, be prejudicial to the investigation is not
released. I hope that my hon. Friend will understand that. As I said, when it is safe to release the information and Kent police are satisfied that no prejudice to the investigation will arise, I shall be the first to release it.
Mr. Nigel Evans (Ribble Valley): It is an appalling tragedy. If any good could possibly come out of it, it would be that action followed from it and that such a tragedy never happened again. If any of the Governments with whom the Home Secretary has been in touch believe that there is no sense of urgency, perhaps this tragedy will persuade them that we must urgently clamp down on this appalling and vile trade. Will the Home Secretary also look into new technology, even military technology, that Governments across the whole of Europe could use to detect whether human beings are inside vehicles? Checking only at ports is simply not enough, particularly if people are able to board vehicles before they reach ports. I understand that, to date, we do not even know where those individuals boarded, or where they died in transit.
Mr. Straw: I hope very much that this dreadful tragedy will have the beneficial outcome of getting some countries in Asia better to understand that they have to be really serious about helping the countries of western Europe to deal with this traffic. Every country in the world that I am aware of signs up to statements saying that they will co-operate effectively; now, we have to ensure that action follows. As I told the hon. Member for Southwark, North and Bermondsey (Mr. Hughes), we are ready to consider any new technology that can secure the better detection of clandestines before they enter the United Kingdom.
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