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BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
Motion made, and Question put forthwith, pursuant to Standing Order No. 15 (Exempted business),
- That, at this day's sitting, the Census (Amendment) Bill [Lords] may be proceeded with, though opposed, until any hour.-- [Mr. McNulty.]
DELEGATED LEGISLATION
Motion made, and Question put forthwith, pursuant to Standing Order No. 118(6) (Standing Committees on Delegated Legislation),
Industrial Organisation and Development
- That the draft Horticultural Development Council (Amendment) Order 2000, which was laid before this House on 18th May, be approved.--[Mr. McNulty.]
Census (Amendment) Bill [Lords]
Order for Second Reading read.
10.27 pm
Mr. Jonathan Sayeed (Mid-Bedfordshire): I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.
The purpose of the Bill is to make a modest change to the Census Act 1920 so that a question on religious affiliation can be included in the next census of population in England and Wales in April 2001. This is necessary because, these days, many more people choose to identify themselves in respect of their religion or their culture, but there are no reliable figures for ethnic sub-groups or for religion. The 2001 census provides a unique opportunity to collect information from groups who increasingly prefer to identify themselves primarily in this way.
If we are to deal with discrimination in the provision of health, housing, schools, welfare and community care services, we require better information. We require better information about baseline figures against which racial disadvantage and social exclusion within particular minority groups can be monitored. This information would be useful in the planning of religious education; it would have relevance in the regeneration of inner cities; and I would expect it to aid the very valuable work of voluntary sector religious groups.
Mr. David Maclean (Penrith and The Border): My hon. Friend says that his Bill would aid planning for the provision of religious education, but since the proposed census question does not have a subset on the Christian religion determining whether one is Protestant or Catholic, how can that assist with the provision of religious education for families who wish their children to be brought up with a Catholic education?
Mr. Sayeed: I suggest that my right hon. Friend read the Lords debate, and particularly the answer given by the Bishop of Lincoln, who answered that question and dealt with it adequately. It would be wrong and unnecessary for me to parrot his words, as I believe that my right hon. Friend has them in front of him.
In their White Paper of last March on the 2001 census, the Government proposed including such a question. A wide range of faith organisations endorsed the proposal and it gained the support of the Inner Cities Religious Council, the Home Secretary's race relations forum and the Commission for Racial Equality. The Bill had a swift and unopposed passage in the other place and, I believe, commands the general support, but not the total support, of both sides of the House.
Mr. Michael Fabricant (Lichfield): My hon. Friend will know that an amendment accepted in the House of Lords means that it is not an offence to withhold the information. I am grateful for that at least, but, if there is no requirement to give the information, does not that mean that the information is not really required?
Mr. Sayeed: That is an interesting thought, but wrong, I think. Most people are prepared to give the information, but, because of the sensitivity of the question, it was
decided that the normal rules and penalties that appertain to filling all census questions should not apply in this particular matter.
Mr. Andrew Tyrie (Chichester): Will my hon. Friend say whether there is any precedent for introducing in primary legislation a duty for which the penalty for non-compliance is subsequently waived?
Mr. Sayeed: I remind my hon. Friend that there has been a requirement for a number of years in Northern Ireland to complete a religious question. A similar non-mandatory duty in Scotland has recently received Royal Assent.
Amendment of the Census Act 1920 is necessary because the schedule to it does not currently provide for particulars on religion to be recorded.
Many of the questions that are traditionally asked in the census are specifically covered in the first five paragraphs of the schedule. Others that may from time to time be required are covered by paragraph 6, which provides for
- any other matters with respect to which it is desirable to obtain statistical information with a view to ascertaining the social or civil condition of the population
Public tests of census questions have shown that the proposed question on religious affiliation is acceptable. Those who have had to complete the forms have understood the question and the quality of the response is sufficiently high for reliable information to be obtained. The question was satisfactorily included in the census rehearsal in April last year.
The Bill is simple, clear and short. Clause 1 adds religion specifically to those particulars that may be required to be provided in a census.
Mr. Douglas Hogg (Sleaford and North Hykeham): Does my hon. Friend consider that the Bill complies with article 8 of the European convention on human rights?
Mr. Sayeed: I am advised by those civil servants who have briefed me on the matter that it does.
Mr. Edward Leigh (Gainsborough): Civil servants? Then why is it not a Government Bill?
Mr. Sayeed: The Government can answer that question.
Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Alan Haselhurst): Order. I think that we have probably had enough interventions from a sedentary position. [Hon. Members: "Oh."] Order. I do not want to have to repeat what I have just said.
Mr. Sayeed: I wish to put it on the record that I am most grateful to the Government for providing the time for a private Member's Bill on this matter.
Clause 1(2) removes the liability to the penalty under section 8 of the 1920 Act in respect of anyone who refuses or neglects to state in their census return the particulars with respect to religion. In effect, this makes any such question on religion voluntary. Although the statutory requirement under the 1920 Act to respond to all other census questions remains, the voluntary status of the proposed religious question deliberately reflects the sensitivity that surrounds this specific topic.
The Bill affects only England and Wales. The census is a devolved matter in Scotland where legislation on this question has, I understand, already received Royal Assent. It is also a devolved matter in Northern Ireland, and this amendment to the census would align census legislation in England and Wales with that of Northern Ireland and Scotland.
Mr. Desmond Swayne (New Forest, West): Has it occurred to my hon. Friend that religious affiliation changes in a way that race or sex do not? Equally, given that religious affiliation is a very personal matter, what guarantee can he give about the accuracy of this information? After all, I might be a member of whatever religion I might fancy, and who could gainsay me? Who could say that I was wrong?
Mr. Sayeed: The census is a snapshot of the time that it is taken. Therefore, if my hon. Friend chooses one religion at that particular time, that is his religion of the moment. It does not mean that in 10 years' time he may not have changed his mind.
Mr. Hogg: On a point of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker. I apologise for interrupting my hon. Friend, but it would be very helpful if you could tell us the Bill's status. I understand that this is a private Member's Bill which is being given Government time. It would be extremely helpful if you could confirm that that is the case. If it is, could you tell the House whether there are any precedents?
Mr. Deputy Speaker: The right hon. and learned Gentleman is correct--that is precisely the case. There are many precedents for this procedure.
Mr. Sayeed: It is clear that a number of my right hon. and hon. Friends and, no doubt, Labour Members, wish to take part in the debate.
Mr. Christopher Chope (Christchurch): I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way. He referred earlier to the question being the same in Scotland as is proposed in England and Wales, but that is not correct. The question on religion in Scotland will be very differently phrased. How can he justify that?
Mr. Sayeed: I believe that I said that the Bill would be similar--I did not say that the question itself would be the same. As I understand it, the question in Scotland differentiates between different Christian religions.
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