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Decommissioning
3. Mr. Martin Salter (Reading, West): When he expects to receive a further report from General de Chastelain. [125478]
4. Mr. Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (Cotswold): What assessment he has made of when progress will be made on arms decommissioning. [125479]
The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr. Peter Mandelson): The Independent International Commission on Decommissioning is responsible for supervising progress on putting paramilitary arms completely and verifiably beyond use. It is a matter for General de Chastelain to decide when it is appropriate to provide a report. In the first instance, that will depend on when the two independent arms inspectors, Mr. Ramaphosa and Mr. Ahtisaari, report their findings to the commission.
Mr. Salter: I thank the Secretary of State for that answer. Sinn Fein said on Monday that it wanted all commitments made by the IRA to be fulfilled. However, does my right hon. Friend agree that the sooner the independent weapons monitors can visit the IRA arms dumps, the more firmly entrenched the peace process will become?
Mr. Mandelson: Yes, I do. Building confidence across the community in Northern Ireland depends on measures such as the one to which my hon. Friend referred. I hope that Mr. Ramaphosa and Mr. Ahtisaari will be able to begin their inspection shortly. It is, of course, a matter for them to take forward. However, when they do, I am confident that they will be able to report progress to the decommissioning body. I look forward to that happening without much further delay.
Mr. Clifton-Brown: Is it not the case that paramilitaries are still carrying out punishment beatings, maimings and killings, and that they continue to run protection rackets? Is it not therefore an absolute precursor to the Belfast agreement that quantifiable and verifiable arms decommissioning should take place before the agreement can be fulfilled?
Mr. Mandelson: Yes, I broadly agree with the hon. Gentleman. However, the difference is that we have moved on from talking about the arms issues to getting a process of decommissioning under way. The Provisional IRA has made a clear and unequivocal commitment to put arms completely and verifiably beyond use. We have never had such a statement from the IRA before. That is what the Northern Ireland Arms Decommissioning Act 1997 requires, and I look forward to action being taken to fulfil that commitment without further or undue delay.
Kali Mountford (Colne Valley): Martin McGuinness made the statement on Monday that all commitments by the IRA should be fulfilled. Does not my right hon. Friend interpret that as a very encouraging sign that all parties
are now fully committed to the peace process? Should we not celebrate that progress, and make sure that the peace process is fully in place?
Mr. Mandelson: Yes, I strongly echo the sentiments expressed by my hon. Friend. This is the first Question Time to be held since the new institutions in Northern Ireland, the Executive and the Assembly, were restarted, and I know that all hon. Members will applaud the resumption of their work. Of course difficulties remain, but the difference now is that we have a political process, within which we can deal with the differences that remain in Northern Ireland. That process may creak and strain a bit as we try to digest a particular problem here or there, but the important thing is that we have a process within which politics can work and the difficulties can be resolved. That process should continue to enjoy the full commitment of all those parties and organisations in Northern Ireland who believe in a democratic and peaceful way forward for that society.
Mr. Ken Maginnis (Fermanagh and South Tyrone): Does the Secretary of State share and understand the frustration of Unionists in Northern Ireland who know that if they publicly press the IRA to fulfil its commitments--not just those made in May, but those made over a period of two years--the reaction will be that, somehow, we are pressuring the IRA? General de Chastelain shares that frustration in terms of any statement that he may make to encourage disarmament by paramilitaries. If he says anything, he will be deemed to have lost the confidence of those organisations. [Hon. Members: "Question!"] I always worry that some of the Secretary of State's colleagues are not very keen to hear criticism of the IRA--[Interruption.]
Madam Speaker: Order. The House is waiting for a question from the hon. Gentleman.
Mr. Maginnis: My question is whether, in terms of the Belfast agreement, it is obligatory for the Irish Government and our Government to work together consistently to ensure that promises are fulfilled. The Irish Government advise Unionists. Why do they not put pressure on the IRA?
Mr. Mandelson: There is within the hon. Gentleman's words an extremely sound point. It is this: on the one hand we do not want to start issuing deadlines and ultimatums and appear to be seeking to impose undue public pressure on people to fulfil the undertakings that they have made for fear that that would have a counter-effect. On the other hand, the public and all the political parties in Northern Ireland want to maintain the pressure on everyone to fulfil their side of bargains and deals that have been made. It behoves us all--the British Government, the Irish Government, the American Government and everyone across the community in Northern Ireland--to keep people up to the mark in terms of what they have agreed to do, without making unreasonable demands in terms of the timetable within which they do it.
Mr. Andrew MacKay (Bracknell): As it is now some six weeks since the Provisional IRA made what appeared to be a positive statement that it would put its arms
verifiably and completely beyond use, and as it is some three weeks since the Executive was set up and it is now successfully running, does the Secretary of State share my concern that there have yet to be any confidence-building measures by the IRA, and the longer that takes the more confidence will drain away?
Mr. Mandelson: I do not yet share the right hon. Gentleman's concern because I maintain my confidence that the IRA, having made commitments, will honour those commitments. I have said in the past that IRA statements for good or ill have a certain rugged honesty about them. I know that people will be extremely disappointed if what the IRA has said it will do is not done before further time elapses.
Mr. MacKay: Naturally, I hope that the Secretary of State's confidence will not be misplaced, but I take him back to what the Prime Minister said at the Dispatch Box a few weeks ago--that the confidence-building measures which we hope will happen very shortly are only the first stage and they must be very quickly followed by the decommissioning of all illegally held arms and explosives, as the IRA promised to do under the Belfast agreement. Will the right hon. Gentleman again confirm that that must happen quickly after the confidence- building measures?
Mr. Mandelson: I do confirm that. The IRA has made a clear and unequivocal statement to put its arms completely beyond use. All this must be independently verified under the supervision of General de Chastelain's commission. I believe that it will happen, but if it does not I have confidence in General de Chastelain and his colleagues to blow the whistle and sound the alarm if they believe that the IRA is resiling from its commitments.
British-Irish Council
5. Mrs. Maria Fyfe (Glasgow, Maryhill): If he will make a statement on the progress being made on the British-Irish Council. [125480]
7. Mr. Hilary Benn (Leeds, Central): If he will make a statement on the progress being made on the British-Irish Council. [125482]
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr. George Howarth): The next summit meeting of the British-Irish Council is likely to be held after the summer. At its inaugural summit in December, the members of the council agreed an important and wide-ranging work programme covering subjects such as transport, drugs and the environment. These are being taken forward by each of the participating Administrations. [Interruption.]
Madam Speaker: Order. Before we proceed, the House must come to order. Conversations are much too noisy and the Minister can barely make himself heard.
Mrs. Fyfe: I thank my hon. Friend for that answer. Will he join me in paying tribute to the work done over the past 10 years by the British-Irish Inter-Parliamentary Body, which has worked behind the scenes to promote
understanding between our two islands? Does he agree that the British-Irish Council could profit from that experience?
Mr. Howarth: Like all institutions, the British-Irish Inter-Parliamentary Body, and all the other bodies associated with it, has been important in maintaining dialogue and bringing people together to discuss issues of common interest in a period when that would not otherwise have been possible. I share my hon. Friend's sentiments--the British-Irish Inter-Parliamentary Body has been important in creating space and opportunities that would not otherwise have existed.
Mr. Benn: What distinct contribution does my hon. Friend think the council has to make to taking forward the peace process in Northern Ireland? In view of the answer that he has just given, could he build on those parliamentary links by including Assembly Members from across the British Isles as a way of demonstrating that the political process is now working?
Mr. Howarth: As my hon. Friend implies, the process has the capacity to develop and to go in new directions. However, I think that the council's important contribution is to look at areas of policy in which there is a common interest--not just issues of security and political development but health, for example--and consider how they can be taken forward. The problems of the past in Northern Ireland were of a divided society and two divided communities. The future must be in finding ways forward, not in looking back.
Mr. Roy Beggs (East Antrim): When the British-Irish Council next meets, will the Minister use his best efforts to persuade it to make representations to the Irish Government to appoint a High Court inspector to investigate the operation of International Investments Ltd. in Dublin and its Irish subsidiaries, which resulted in more than £7 million being lost by British and Irish investors? Will the hon. Gentleman accept from me that the failure of successive Governments to appoint a High Court inspector suggests that there may have been a cover-up, and that if such a decision is made, even at this late stage, it could be a confidence-building measure?
Mr. Howarth: I think that the hon. Gentleman will, on reflection, accept that that is not an appropriate matter for the Government to raise at the British-Irish Council. If, however, he believes that it is a matter of importance to Northern Ireland, it is open to the First Minister, the right hon. Member for Upper Bann (Mr. Trimble), to use the opportunity that the British-Irish Council creates to raise it.
Miss Anne McIntosh (Vale of York): Will the Minister confirm whether the next meeting of the British-Irish Council will consider policing in Northern Ireland, particularly the issue of future policing meeting the requirements of the European convention on human rights?
Mr. Howarth: The Patten proposals are being considered in Committee under the Police (Northern Ireland) Bill, and there is a declaration on the front of the Bill, as there is on all legislation, that it is compatible with the European convention on human rights. In general
terms, as my right hon. Friend the Minister of State said earlier, there is a great deal of scope for co-operation between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland on policing. We take those opportunities seriously. We also recognise that it creates a better environment in which to police not only terrorism but some of the problems associated with smuggling across the border.
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