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6.6 pm
Mr. David Hinchliffe (Wakefield): We have had an excellent debate. The contributions so far have without exception been very constructive, and important points have been made. It is a pity that not one Conservative Back Bencher was present to hear what the hon. Member for Runnymede and Weybridge (Mr. Hammond) had to say, as he made some very relevant points.
Mr. Robert Syms (Poole): I was here.
Mr. Hinchliffe: The hon. Gentleman is a Front Bencher.
I welcome the consensus that has developed around the measure. The most recent similar consensus that I recall was around the Children Act 1989. In a recent debate on the Care Standards Bill, my right hon. Friend the Member for Coatbridge and Chryston (Mr. Clarke) referred to the fact that several of us had served in Committee on the Bill that became that Act. We recognised that it was a landmark measure and we all tried to ensure that we put on the statute book the best possible solution to some of the problems that we faced.
One or two of us thought then that we needed to go further on the issue of leaving care. We tabled amendments on the subject, which were rejected. I recall my very good friend Joan Lestor speaking passionately and at length on the subject.
I thank the Government for finding time for this measure. I know that it is difficult to fit such measures into the timetable, and I pay tribute to the Secretary of State and his ministerial team--and a special tribute to my right hon. Friend the Member for Holborn and St. Pancras (Mr. Dobson). I know how passionately he feels about these issues, and his contribution today evidenced the anger that he feels about the way in which we have maltreated so many youngsters over many years. As he says, we are all responsible. I join him in paying tribute to the Minister of State, Home Office, my right hon. Friend the Member for Brent, South (Mr. Boateng), who made a detailed contribution to the development of the Bill.
I also want to mention one or two people whom I have known for a long time who have campaigned long and hard--indeed, in some instances, they have devoted their lives--to bring about a measure of this nature. Way back in the 1970s I met Professor Mike Stein of York university, who has specialised in this area. He argued long and hard 30 years ago for steps such as those that we are taking in the Bill. I pay a sincere tribute to his work.
I must not forget my hon. Friend the Member for Lancaster and Wyre (Mr. Dawson). It says a lot when someone from Yorkshire pays tribute to someone from Lancaster. It shows how much I admire the work that he has done since entering Parliament. He has dedicated himself to fighting on this issue, and has brought together many children and young people behind his efforts.
I also pay tribute to the campaigning work that young people who have been through the care system have done over many years to get a better deal. In the Select Committee on Health I had the great privilege of listening to witnesses who we thought might not perform but who outperformed even former Secretaries of State in terms of their confidence and their ability to argue their corner. The hon. Member for Isle of Wight (Dr. Brand) was present at that sitting, and I know that he would share my view.
I speak with some feeling, because I worked with children in care for many years. I can get quite emotional about what I saw of some of the youngsters with whom I had dealings who left the care system in circumstances that were far from desirable.
I have continued contact with some of those young people, some of whom have done very well in life. A couple of years ago, I was moved to be visited at my surgery by a lad whom I had thought was one of my failures. He came to tell me that he had got a job as a charge nurse or psychiatric nurse in the community,
and was doing extremely well. He had achieved something in life, which I never thought that he would do. We should never lose sight of the fact that very many youngsters from the care system do well. Despite the problems that are put in their way, often by us, many of them come through.As my right hon. Friend the Member for Holborn and St. Pancras said, however, the clear pattern for far too many males is to move from care into the prison system. I think that about 25 per cent. of all prisoners have been in care, and that--as my right hon. Friend said--about 38 per cent. of young prisoners come from the care system. I also agree with his point on costs. If we are arguing in the comprehensive spending review for more resources, for goodness' sake, let us make the point that giving youngsters a decent start in life helps to avoid the huge costs and other impacts created when they spend time in prison. It is a way of making long-term savings.
Too often, females go from care to prostitution. I have terrible experience of that fact. One of the Yorkshire Ripper's victims was a young lady whom I knew when she was in care. She left care in the usual way, went into prostitution and was murdered by Peter Sutcliffe. I will not forget that as long as I live.
Frequently, when travelling between Leeds and Wakefield, I pass the part of Leeds where prostitutes assemble at night. Sadly, far too often I see faces that I knew many years before, when I worked in the care system. I feel deeply that we need to do something about young people moving from care into prostitution.
Since the passage of the Children Act 1989, report after report has said that we have to take action about young people leaving care. The Utting report has already been mentioned in detail today. We have also had the Waterhouse report on the situation in Wales. I was proud to be able to take part in the Health Committee's inquiry into looking after children, which was the first major inquiry of this Parliament. I pay particular tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Preston (Audrey Wise)--who has not been well recently, although I am pleased to hear that she is doing better now--for her part in that. No one devoted more energy than she did to the inquiry and to addressing the issue, and I give her full credit for it.
In our inquiry, the Committee considered the priority given to children's issues by successive Governments. One fact that we established was that successive Governments--I blame not only the present Government but the previous one as well--have failed to fulfil a key requirement of the 1989 Act, which was to present to Parliament an annual report on the Act's operation. Perhaps that fact indicates that we should give a bit more thought to what we do for children and young people. It is worrying that requirements in legislation passed by the House can simply slip off the agenda.
I believe that we have to ensure that the Bill provides a vigorous independent voice, locally and nationally, for children in care. I welcome the concept of a personal adviser for children. In our report, the Health Committee picked up the concept of an advocate for children and young people in the care system.
Nevertheless, I suspect that I am speaking on behalf of many of my hon. Friends who are in the Chamber when I urge the Government to look again at the role of the
children's rights commissioner. The commissioner's role will have to go wider than dealing only with children in the care system. So many agencies are involved in the issue that that proposal simply cannot deal with it. We have to listen to the arguments--which I accepted many years ago--for a children's rights commissioner. I have seen the concept work in many other countries, and I believe that a commissioner could do a huge job for vulnerable children and young people in the United Kingdom.I have one or two other concerns. My hon. Friend the Minister raised the issue of resources. Although I understand the Government's position on the comprehensive spending review, the entire history of United Kingdom social legislation is one of good intentions backed by entirely inadequate resources. We have to learn the lessons of the many Bills that have been passed by the House and been widely welcomed, but for which there has been no money for implementation. I realise that colleagues from local government will hold up their hands in horror and say, "We agree with that, but where will the money come from?" The Government will have to address the resourcing issue.
I shall also nit-pick on one small matter--some of the terminology used in the Bill. I hope that in Committee, Ministers and their team will examine some of the archaic terminology, such as "eligible children", "relevant children" and "former relevant children"--that is, children over 18 who were previously relevant or eligible. Some of the terminology is Sir Humphrey-style gibberish at its best, and was probably dreamed up at Richmond house by the same Department of Health official who came up with the official distinction between "community care" and "care in the community", which continues to baffle me--and most of those who end up in community care.
I hope that that matter will be examined in Committee, because the point underpinning the legislation is that all children should be relevant. The words "relevant" and "irrelevant" are nonsense and should perhaps be replaced in Committee. I am sure that we will be able to do that.
I seek further assurances about the development of a national strategy to investigate the reasons why children come into care. I genuinely appreciate the action that the Government are taking with various measures to deal with poverty and unemployment. I have always been concerned, however, about the fact that such initiatives are not always knitted together, and are occasionally completely contradictory.
Specifically, what are we doing to deal with the perpetuation of physical and sexual abuse over the generations? So many of the sexually abused children with whom I have worked had parents who themselves were sexually abused. We have to examine how we can break that cycle, and we have not yet got a grip on the issue.
I want the Bill, and all legislation affecting children in care, to help to prepare children for life outside the care system as soon as they enter it. We should prepare children for leaving care from the word go. Of course I am not talking about preparing babies to leave, but we have to ensure that our system is geared to enabling young people to leave the care system prepared and competent to deal with life, just as we should hope that our own children are able to deal with life.
The education system has caused me great concern, and I echo the comments on schooling made by my right hon. Friend the Member for Holborn and St. Pancras. In our inquiry, the Health Committee picked up on concerns about the way in which the education system rejects kids who come from the care system. My right hon. Friend was bang on in his comments about league tables and choice, which lead us to reject youngsters.
It is often easiest for schools to leave out those children. In some respects it is helpful to schools if those children do not attend, because the schools do not believe that they will be achievers. Often, social services are not unduly worried about youngsters missing school, so long as they are not in trouble. We have to address that crucial issue and tie it in with broader thinking on the implications of league tables and competition between schools.
My hon. Friend the Member for South Swindon (Ms Drown), who is not in the Chamber, asked about age limits. That issue was also touched on by the hon. Member for Runnymede and Weybridge (Mr. Hammond). I not only listened carefully to his speech but intervened in it, because the issue of competence has to be well and truly addressed in Committee. The point that he and I were trying to make is that so many youngsters will never survive without help.
Through my wife, I am involved in an organisation based in Leeds, called Caring for Life. It takes children from across west Yorkshire who have been in the care system and takes care of them for life--just as its name says. Against the background of struggling to raise money, it looks after some very vulnerable young people and older people. We have to understand that some youngsters will never cope independently, but do not fit easily into the other care categories--such as those involving mental health--for which provision is made.
I mentioned the Conservative policy of placing children with religious organisations. I seriously hope that Conservative Members will seriously consider the United Kingdom's experience with such a policy, which was not particularly good. One or two of the Conservative Members who served on the Health Committee will give the hon. Member for Runnymede and Weybridge the reasons, chapter and verse, why some of us have reservations about returning to the Christian Brothers as the basis for our care system.
I hope that my hon. Friend the Minister will take note of the fact that the Bill talks about care leavers. Some of us have had dealings with care leavers who were victims and went through the child migration scheme that the United Kingdom operated until 1967. Some of those people are now my age, and others are in their 80s or 90s. Children were sent to Australia, New Zealand, Zimbabwe, Canada and elsewhere. Thousands are still alive, and still suffering.
In the context of the wider debate about people who have left care, I hope that the Government will look again at the funding arrangements for the Child Migrant Trust. That organisation is struggling to cope with the demands of people who are still trying to get into contact with their natural mothers, fathers, brothers and sisters.
The trust bid for £800,000 a year, but received only £130,000. That is more than it used to get, but it is nowhere near adequate to meet the demands placed on it. A trust representative told me today that cases remain
unallocated, and that even when parents' whereabouts are known, those now elderly people are dying before they can be linked up with their children. That is unacceptable.I hope that the Government will look at the travel fund for child migrants, which was worth £1 million over three years when it was established. That total has been eaten up rapidly by the demands placed on it. This is a matter of humanity, and the Government's response to the Health Committee report was constructive, so I feel able to ask for a bit more money to be given to the trust. It would make a huge difference.
Australia week takes place in early July, and the Australian Prime Minister and his entire Cabinet will be in this country. Might not that be an appropriate time to suggest that people in Australia could play a bigger part than hitherto in addressing a scandal that stemmed from the policies of both Governments?
I shall conclude my limited observations by congratulating the Government on the introduction of the Bill. One or two points need to be sorted out in Committee, but it addresses the needs of a group of people who have been left behind far too often. The Bill will offer youngsters a future, and I welcome it very warmly.
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