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Mrs. Spelman: I heard the hon. Lady's earlier intervention. Common sense is needed in working out the pathway plan. Adults at their wits' end must try to use common sense as young people make the transition, and advisers will have to use common sense when dealing with youngsters unwilling to follow the route that we suggest for them. It is against the ideal of being a really good corporate parent, which is hard to achieve, that we are trying to assess the Bill.
It is important that we try to ensure that young people have a choice when it comes to personal advisers. The independence of personal advisers may be the key to trust. A phrase that came home to me when I was talking to some of the voluntary organisations was that children in care sometimes see those who are there to help them as part of a "hated establishment". If the advisers are seen as insufficiently independent of that establishment, they are unlikely to be trusted. Surely the young individual should have the right to reject any advice thrust upon him if, after a trial period with an individual adviser, the process is not working.
I support the argument of my hon. Friend the Member for Runnymede and Weybridge that, at 18, a young adult must have the right to say, "Thanks, but no thanks." However, that must be balanced in the Bill with the right for that young adult to come back if he changes his mind. Striking that balance will be part of our skill in getting the proposed legislation right.
Where the Bill will succeed or fail lies in the future ability of local authorities to overcome the natural antipathy and mistrust of young people in their care towards them. We have been told so often by those working in this area that that is the nub of the argument. That is one of the reasons why we strongly advocated the greater use of voluntary organisations. In the example given by my hon. Friend, they can often do better.
Communication between local authorities will be vital if the Bill is to work. Young people are naturally mobile, and they may move from the authority area in which they are in care to another. The Bill holds the original authority responsible for the financial and social support of that individual. There will have to be a new spirit of interdependence between local authorities.
As in one case study that I saw, if the local authority in Hull is asked to pick up the tab for a care leaver who lives, studies and needs help in, for example, London, good communication between the two authorities will be required.
The Government may have to use their powers under the Local Government Act 1999, as the Minister made clear. It contains powers to direct a local authority which fails in its obligations under the Bill. These powers have not yet been implemented, despite having been law since April. If the Bill is to have effect, these powers will have to be seen to work. It is only when local authorities are brought to book if they fail, that confidence in the system will be restored.
There is the question of the looming Scottish anomaly. We do not want a repetition of the student fee situation. However, it could arise where care leavers can continue to get hold of existing benefits from social security in Scotland whereas, under the Bill, that will be stopped in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. I am sorry that the right hon. Member for Coatbridge and Chryston (Mr. Clarke) is not present because I have to say that that involves two-way traffic.
Scottish care leavers coming to England will still be entitled to benefits unless parallel legislation is achieved pretty quickly in the Scottish Parliament. It is not impossible to imagine a situation, unless the anomaly is rectified, where somewhere such as Glasgow becomes the care leavers' capital of Britain. I am sure that the local authority in Glasgow would not wish that to happen.
Voluntary organisations such as the Action on Aftercare Consortium have considerable evidence of young people having trouble accessing the existing complaints procedure. The Bill lacks a new model with sufficient independence to inspire confidence in a complaints procedure. I support the view of the hon. Member for Stafford (Mr. Kidney) that it would be helped by greater use of advocacy. The voluntary organisation First Key and a host of other organisations believe passionately that every child should have access to an independent advocate. I hope that is something that we shall be able to explore in Committee.
Mr. Hutton: I am not sure whether the hon. Lady is aware that yesterday we published a consultation document about possible reform of social services complaints procedures. We have asked specific questions about the role of advocacy. We have always made it clear in relation to the Bill that we shall ensure that looked-after children have access to proper advocacy arrangements.
Mrs. Spelman: I thank the Minister for that helpful intervention. I was unaware that the document had been published. That helps me.
A host of other practical issues will be brought forward in the form of appropriate amendments in Committee. To allow the Government time to think about some of them, it is worth flagging up a few. For example, why restrict the provision of vacation accommodation to those on higher education courses only?
The hon. Member for Cardiff, North (Ms Morgan) made an important point about the value of further education. Only a few care leavers aspire to university qualifications. However, many aspire to more practical qualifications that are obtainable through further education. Of course, FE colleges also have vacations, and that is something that we need to consider if we are to commend this part of the Bill.
An important point was made in the other place about the means-testing of financial support. As far as I am aware, that point has not been taken up today. I would like to know the Minister's thinking on protecting care leavers who have been granted compensation for criminal injuries. That could arise particularly in cases of child abuse. In that instance, that compensation should definitely be excluded from any means-testing of the financial support that the individual receives. We want to ensure that that point is not lost.
Hon. Members raised a number of other technical points, and at times the debate almost resembled a Committee stage. Therefore, I simply re-emphasise the Opposition's support for the Bill. In Committee, our opposition will consist of constructive suggestions on how to improve the Bill. There needs to be a touch of gritty reality about dealing with the needs and aspirations of troubled youngsters who have had some of their life chances seriously dented, and we must be careful not to make matters worse. Sadly, there is too much evidence of the state doing just that.
We recognise that the Bill will place a considerable additional burden on social workers, and they will need plenty of support. We must be particularly aware of the fact that, as the hon. Member for Chatham and Aylesford (Mr. Shaw) said, social workers are already in short supply in certain areas.
Several hon. Members made important points about resources. For the Bill to work, it needs to be properly resourced. At least one practical problem that will need to be addressed is that savings in the administrative costs of benefits will remain with the Department of Social Security unless they can be transferred to support the new financial support arrangements for care leavers under the Bill. We are anxious to ensure that resources that were once available for care leavers from one Department will now be available from another, so that there are sufficient resources to ensure that the Bill can be put into effect.
Mr. Dawson: I am not a chap for spurious consensus, and some of the hon. Lady's remarks cause me to shudder a little. I am committed to the role of the voluntary sector and the private sector, but when we hear from the spokesperson of a party which comprehensively failed for so long to deal with these issues that it is sceptical about the role of the state, it makes me wonder. The role of the state will be crucial in ensuring that standards are raised. If we rely on the Churches, the voluntary sector, other private sector organisations or odd little organisations coming together, however worthy they are, we will not tackle the fundamental issues that the Conservative party so signally failed to deal with for so many years.
Mrs. Spelman: I regret giving way to the hon. Gentleman. He provokes me into referring to the tone of his speech, which stuck out like a sore thumb as it was the only one that did not represent the cross-party consensus. I would have glossed over it but for that last intervention, which was particularly provocative. I do not think that he was present at the beginning of my speech when I said that we are seeing a continuum in terms of the improvement of children's services, which started with the Children Act and was greatly informed by the inquiry, set up by the Conservative Government, into what had gone wrong in children's services. We have learned a great deal and now we are working together to try to improve what is available. There was no necessity for that intervention.
Mr. Dawson: Will the hon. Lady give way?
Mrs. Spelman: No, I shall certainly not give way again. The hon. Gentleman has burned his boats. He will have to content himself with the one intervention.
In Committee, we must seek to infuse the debate with the practical experience of those who work with children leaving care, which I am sure several members of the Committee will be able to do. We should also include the independent views of voluntary organisations, which have a great deal of experience of best practice to offer. We may find ourselves the corporate parents of young people in our care system, but they will not thank us if we impose unworkable solutions, cut off their money and let them down.
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