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Mrs. Beckett: Of course I understand the importance of the issue that my hon. Friend raises. He will know that the Committee said in its report:
- We do agree with the Secretary of State that any use of the present surplus in the national insurance fund must be sustainable in the long term.
Dr. Julian Lewis (New Forest, East): Will the Leader of the House try to persuade a defence procurement Minister to come to the House and make a statement about the unusual controversy in the Ministry of Defence over the naming of the next two Royal Navy survey vessels? They were to be named HMS Shackleton and HMS Cook. There is no problem with HMS Shackleton, but I understand that the name of the other vessel has met resistance in the Ministry of Defence.
If the right hon. Lady cannot do that, can she persuade a Foreign Office Minister to come to the House and explain why, when I tabled a written question on 13 April to ask whether Lord Levy had had contact with foreign intelligence and security agencies, it took until 7 June to get a one-line reply? It read:
- In line with long standing practice of successive Governments we do not comment on intelligence matters.--[Official Report, 7 June 2000; Vol. 351, c. 291W.]
Mrs. Beckett: I know nothing about the naming of ships commissioned for the Royal Navy. However, I do know that the contract that has been placed will sustain 800 jobs in Devon. That seems much more important than what the ships are called, although I have no doubt that that will be a matter of concern to someone.
Secondly, of course I regret that the hon. Gentleman did not get an answer to his question sooner. We continually remind colleagues of the importance of responding more speedily, but I fear that, as the answer revealed, there is nothing further that I can add on security and intelligence matters.
Mr. John Smith (Vale of Glamorgan): Will my right hon. Friend find time for the House to debate the real cost of rail travel in this country compared with other European countries? According to research that I commissioned from the Library, the standard inter-city fare from, say, Paddington to Cardiff costs twice as much as the fare for an equivalent journey in Belgium or France, and more than six times as much as in Italy. That is a direct result of the policies of the previous Conservative Government, although the train operating companies deny that and try to argue that British passengers get a fair deal.
Given the amount of taxpayer's money that subsidises fares in this country, does she not agree that passengers have a right to know whether they are getting ripped off by the train operators?
Mrs. Beckett: I have some sympathy with the point that my hon. Friend makes. I know that there is
considerable concern about fares in this country, especially in connection with the contracts signed with the rail operators. I know also that the Rail Regulator and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Environment, Transport and the Regions keep the matter under review. I fear that I cannot undertake to find time for a debate on the matter in the near future, but I will certainly draw my hon. Friend's remarks to the attention of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State.
Mr. Stephen O'Brien (Eddisbury): May we have an early debate on the effect of this Labour Government on Parliament and on the democratic accountability of the Executive? Charter 88 has stated that the Prime Minister has created an elective dictatorship by concentrating power in Downing street, and that the result of his control freakery is that everything is managed from the centre. Would not an early full-day debate be the appropriate way to answer that charge?
Mrs. Beckett: I have rarely agreed with much of what Charter 88 says, and I do not propose to start now.
Mr. Dale Campbell-Savours (Workington): May we have a debate on developments in the steel industry? That is especially important because the Corus group is stripping out the industry's heart and creating thousands of redundancies throughout the United Kingdom. The situation is especially bad in my constituency. Strategic sectors of British industry are being closed down, so is it not about time for the voice of Parliament to be heard?
Mrs. Beckett: Of course I understand the concern expressed by my hon. Friend, and I am very mindful indeed of the anxieties felt in constituencies such as his. He will know that steps have been taken by my right hon. Friends the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry and the Minister for Employment, Welfare to Work and Equal Opportunities to offer help and support to those who unfortunately lose out as a result of the changes.
I also understand and accept that my hon. Friend the Member for Workington (Mr. Campbell-Savours) and others have concerns about manufacturing employment more generally. I fear that I cannot undertake to find time for a special debate on the matter on the Floor of the House, but my hon. Friend might like to consider Westminster Hall.
Mr. Nigel Evans (Ribble Valley): Will the Leader of the House arrange for a debate on democracy so that Conservative Members can talk about this week's Charter 88 report, which referred to the worrying concentration of power in the hands of the Executive? We could also talk about the burgeoning cost of government: more than £2 billion a year more is spent now than three years ago, and the number of special advisers funded by the taxpayer has doubled. Such a debate would also afford Labour Members the opportunity to talk about the matters that interest them, such as why they cannot get home to bed by 10 o'clock at night.
Mrs. Beckett: I have not read the Charter 88 report. I wholly reject the notion that there is something unseemly in the way in which the Government is being run and managed.
I hope that the hon. Gentleman will be aware that the figures for extra costs are completely spurious. The figures that Conservative Members continually use are simply the cash figures. In real terms, we are spending less on administration than did the Conservative party when it was last in government. Indeed, not only are we spending less, but the number of those employed in the public services at the centre has gone down, while the number of public servants in services such as health and education is rising and will continue to rise.
On special advisers, we take the view that Ministers should have a proper range of advice, and we take the same view with regard to the Opposition. The increase in advice to Government has been more than matched by the increase in advice to the Opposition, who are clearly in sore need of it.
Mr. John Bercow (Buckingham): Given that this morning, for some strange reason, the House failed to reach my Question 34 on taxation, I would like to ask the right hon. Lady for an early debate on the need for transparency in taxation. In the light of the criticism by the Select Committee on the Treasury of the Chancellor's refusal to publish the figures that show the impact of direct and indirect taxes on the typical household and on households in other income deciles, would not such a debate allow the Chancellor the opportunity to explain whether he will mend his ways and, if he will not do so, why on earth he expects to be taken seriously when he is picking the pockets of the British people on an unprecedented scale?
Mrs. Beckett: I remind the hon. Gentleman that the Government have given independence to the national statistical service, something that the previous Government never had the courage to do. That will, over time, undoubtedly increase confidence in the statistics that we publish--confidence that was sorely missing under the previous Administration.
As for the idea that the Chancellor should come here to debate the figures that he gives, I think that when he comes to the Dispatch Box we should debate the fact that we have the lowest inflation for a generation, the lowest mortgage rates for a generation, with the best levels of employment and the lowest levels of unemployment since 1980, which was the beginning of the Conservative party's term in office. Those are the issues that really matter to the British people, not the Conservative party's allegations.
SCOTTISH GRAND COMMITTEE
Motion made, and Question put forthwith, pursuant to Standing Order 100(1) (Scottish Grand Committee (sittings)),
- That the Scottish Grand Committee shall meet on Monday 10th July at half-past Ten o'clock at the Glasgow City Council former High School buildings, Glasgow, to consider a substantive Motion for the adjournment of the Committee--[Mr. Betts.]
Security and Intelligence Agencies
[Relevant documents: Intelligence and Security Committee Annual Report 1998-99, Cm 4532, and the Government's response thereto, Cm 4569;
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