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Mr. Winnick: On the basis that nothing should be published that will undermine national security, and if Stella Rimington decides to go ahead with publication, will the Government take no action to stop her?
Mr. Cook: I cannot say anything as definitive as my hon. Friend advises me to. Discussions continue and it
would not necessarily be helpful if we took too clear a view. While the book may contain nothing that would directly compromise national security, I detect from many of the speeches today that Members would wish Stella Rimington to reflect on the example that she would set and on whether it would be wise to proceed.Rare partisan points were made by the right hon. and learned Member for Folkestone and Hythe (Mr. Howard) and the right hon. Member for Horsham, who both managed to introduce Europe. Given how high Europe ranks in Conservative thinking, we should probably be grateful that it did not play a more prominent part in the debate. As the right hon. and learned Gentleman and the right hon. Gentleman pressed me on the matter, I can say that we agreed, only this week at the Feira European Council, to four working groups with NATO to consider the interface between the European security and defence policy and NATO. Intelligence is obviously part of that interface, and I can think of no one better to oversee the work than Javier Solana, until recently the Secretary General of NATO and now overseeing European security as the High Representative of the European Council.
I will not undertake to see nothing in the proposals. Nor would we agree to anything that would put at risk our special relationship in intelligence with the United States. I do not entirely follow the logic of those who are concerned that we will not be able, because we are entering into a security arrangement with several of the countries of Europe, to continue with our special relationship on intelligence. We have maintained that relationship for 50 years with exactly the same countries as members of NATO.
Nor am I particularly impressed by threats from an anonymous French man that the security initiative would compromise Britain's national intelligence gathering; I am absolutely confident that the French have not the slightest intention of allowing it to compromise their own national intelligence gathering. I do not, therefore, feel an active threat from that quarter.
Mr. Howard: Is not the Foreign Secretary missing the point? I referred to the quotation from the French Minister for Europe in which he made it perfectly plain that he wanted to see Europe as a rival to the USA--there are those who regard that as an honourable and legitimate objective. If that is the type of Europe that is being envisaged by at least some of those who are behind the initiative, is it not inevitable that the Americans will have concerns about continuing to share their intelligence with those who want to set up a rival to them in the world?
Mr. Cook: The United States shares intelligence with us as members of an alliance that includes France. As to US anxiety, I can only refer the right hon. and learned Gentleman to the comments made by the President of the USA in Germany earlier this month. Referring to European security, he said:
- There is no contradiction between a strong Europe and a strong transatlantic relationship.
The right hon. Member for Maidstone and The Weald (Miss Widdecombe) inquired as to whether security had been compromised by the disappearance of the laptops in the ownership of the agencies. I advise the House that
we are confident that security has not been compromised. Nevertheless, it is plainly vital that we address that important security aspect. I welcome the fact that the ISC investigator is carrying out a review of the matter. We look forward to the report and will ensure that any conclusions or findings of the Committee are fully fed into our response to those events.That matter underlines the fact that the ISC does not act as a means of scrutiny only on behalf of Parliament. The Committee is a valuable partner for the Government in ensuring that we maintain proper accountability and rigour over the security agencies.
It is in exactly that spirit that the ISC undertook the Mitrokhin study; we are grateful to it for having done so. The members of the Committee addressed that duty with diligence, conscientiousness and discretion. Their report is welcome, as the debate has demonstrated, because it restores a sense of balance to the Mitrokhin issue. Mistakes were made under both Administrations, but it is important that we apply ourselves to the lessons that should be learned for the future.
As the right hon. Member for Bridgwater pointed out, the great value of the report is that it underscored what a major achievement it was for SIS to get Mr. Mitrokhin out of Russia with his information. It was an outstanding piece of intelligence work, as the Committee recorded. It provided more leads for counter-espionage work than any other counter-espionage operation. We owe a major debt to the agencies for having made that possible and to the immense courage of Mr. Mitrokhin during the long years when he accumulated the information that has been of such value to those of us who want to expose the threat to our values and our societies.
I agree with the hon. Member for New Forest, East (Dr. Lewis) at least in that we cannot learn the lessons of the past if we do not know the facts of the past. In that, Mr. Mitrokhin has been of extreme value to us. The hon. Gentleman referred to a long list of issues on which we had had to wait for too long to find the truth. I add to that list the fact that we had to wait until last year to discover that the Zinoviev letter was a forgery. I am grateful to the hon. Member for Lewes (Mr. Baker) for having prompted us to undertake that project so as to put those facts into the public domain.
Mr. Straw: It was too late for the 1924 general election.
Mr. Cook: Indeed. Nevertheless, it is important that the matter be put in the public arena. I can give an undertaking to the House that, wherever it is safe to do so, we shall share historical facts that the public are entitled to know and that we should have no fear of sharing with them.
I am sorry that the hon. Member for Lewes is not a member of the Intelligence and Security Committee. Given the volume of parliamentary questions that he tables on the topic, he qualifies at least for associate membership of the Committee. He made several detailed proposals for enhanced scrutiny. However, in the 30 minutes since he sat down, it has not been possible for the Government to take a collective view on them. We will, of course, reflect on those interesting ideas as we expand the operation of scrutiny and make sure that we maintain the oversight of the work of the agencies.
I now come to a central theme of the debate which was picked up, in particular, by my hon. Friends the Members for Doncaster, Central (Ms Winterton) and for Walsall, North (Mr. Winnick). That is the wide-ranging oversight that we now have over all the agencies. I referred earlier to the fact that I have been a Member of the House for a quarter of a century. When in the 1970s I started an annual Adjournment debate on the activities of special branch, it was seen as a rather daring innovation in accountability.
At that time in the 1970s, if anybody had suggested that we would have a six or seven-hour debate in prime time on the work of the three agencies on the basis of a report conducted by Members of the House, who had interviewed and taken evidence from all the agencies, he would have been regarded as an unrealistic visionary or perhaps, even worse, as a subversive who should attract the attention of the hon. Member for New Forest, East. On that point, I carry the hon. Gentleman with me.
The change has been of value and importance not only to Parliament in improving our ability to carry out scrutiny, but to the agencies, many of which have widely welcomed the progress that has been made. My hon. Friend the Member for Workington (Mr. Campbell-Savours) has done sterling service on these issues as a member of the ISC and as a Member of the House. I agree with his observation that the new generation at the top of the agencies take a more open approach than was possible or encouraged during the cold war. This new generation regards accountability as an asset to an agency, not as an irritation.
I firmly believe that the discussion that the heads of the agencies and others within the agencies have had with senior Members of the House and the Committee and the debates that we have had in the House on the Committee's report have all been of great assistance in ensuring that the priorities and objectives of the agencies reflect the concerns of elected Members of Parliament. They also mean that there is a broader consensus on the national interests and the risks that the agencies should focus on to protect those interests.
There is one dramatic measure of how far forward we have moved over the past 20 years in involving the agencies in the public debate. It took place yesterday when all three agencies appeared before the human rights taskforce of the Home Office. It brings together non-governmental organisations active in human rights, which are able to discuss between them how the agencies will shape their operations and their methods to make sure that they are entirely compatible with the European convention on human rights, which we are importing into British law. Such an encounter would have been unimaginable two decades ago, but it is entirely healthy and valuable for both sides of the debate.
It is right that Parliament and the public should have the opportunity to hold all public institutions to account and the security agencies should be no exception. My right hon. Friend the Home Secretary and I are accountable to Parliament and, through Parliament, to the public for the actions of the agencies. We are responsible for ensuring that they act in accordance with the law, and we take those duties seriously. As Secretary of State, I have the right to know what is done under my authority and I am responsible for scrutinising applications and for
signing warrants. My right hon. Friend and I are also responsible for ensuring that the agencies have the resources that they need to carry out their important work. We are both accountable to Parliament.There are robust processes for ensuring that we are both kept informed about important things that we need to know or which we may need to know for future. I have bilateral meetings with the chief of the SIS and with Francis Richards, the director of GCHQ. I have officials at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office dedicated solely to the job of understanding what the agencies are doing and guiding them on our policy.
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