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9.55 pm
Mr. Moss: The heart of the Bill is not the compensation clause but clause 1, which creates the offence of keeping animals primarily for the value of their fur. For the first time it criminalises a legal farming activity, which even after the Bill receives Royal Assent will still be legal in the rest of the European Union.
It is incumbent on the Government to give their reasons for introducing such draconian legislation. The Bill proposes a ban on fur farming. What do the Government
tell us by way of justification? Their only justification at the time of the private Member's Bill introduced by the hon. Member for Liverpool, Garston (Maria Eagle) was animal welfare. They have now shifted to a position on public morality. The Minister said in Committee:
- we want fur farming to be banned because it is unethical.
- arguing purely on welfare grounds is irrelevant.--[Official Report, Standing Committee E, 23 May 2000; c. 34-5.]
Setting aside for a moment whether a ban is fair, reasonable or even justified, we must ask whether it is legal in the context of existing EU legislation to which the Government have signed up. It is worth exploring that point. After all, it is surely misguided of the Government to introduce legislation that seems to fly in the face of current EU law.
Mr. Eric Martlew (Carlisle): Does the hon. Gentleman intend to divide the House on this matter?
Mr. Moss: The hon. Gentleman will have to see what happens at the end of the debate.
It is worth exploring the legal position given that the Bill appears to fly in the face of current EU legislation. So worried are the farming and agricultural interests within the EU about the implications of the offence created in clause 1 that they have sought legal advice.
The Committee of Agricultural Organisations in the European Community--COPA--and the General Committee for Agricultural Co-operation in the EU--COGECA--presented a paper of legal advice in which they argue that a ban as proposed by the Government is incompatible with European law on a number of grounds. They cite articles 28 and 29 and of the EC treaty, the principles of proportionality and non-discrimination and a judgment in November 1998 in which the European Court ruled that a member state is not entitled to enact national animal welfare measures once a harmonisation directive or regulation has been adopted. They also cite the common organisations of the market. They argue that where regulations are based on an open market to which every producer has free access, the keeping of animals covered by the organisations cannot be prohibited.
It being Ten o'clock, the debate stood adjourned.
Motion made, and Question put forthwith, pursuant to Standing Order No. 15 (Exempted business),
- That, at this day's sitting, the Fur Farming (Prohibition) Bill may be proceeded with, though opposed, until any hour.--[Mr. Touhig.]
Question again proposed, That the Bill be now read the Third time.
Mr. Moss: Powerful and cogent legal advice from lawyers conversant with EU law questions in a
fundamental way whether the creation of an offence of keeping animals for their fur can be made to stick. Without the offence, the Bill collapses and a ban is impossible to implement. That is why it is vital to challenge that crucial element of clause 1.In our opinion, the paucity of uncontested, reliable and corroborated scientific evidence about mink welfare has caused the Government to drop their animal welfare objections to fur farming, and to switch their justification for the ban to grounds of public morality. On Second Reading and in Committee, the Minister offered various definitions of what the Government meant by the term "public morality". The latest definition came in a written answer of 22 June. The Government admitted:
- "Public Morality" is not susceptible to an absolute definition: it inevitably involves subjective judgment.--[Official Report, 22 June 2000; Vol. 352, c. 300W.]
- before taking any unilateral measures.
Mr. Moss: I accept that the Bill is being introduced in line with article 30, but the Commission has advised the Government to hold on before acting unilaterally in passing legislation. The reason is that the Commission is bringing in new directives and regulations that relate to fur farming throughout the whole of Europe. When those regulations are introduced, it may be even easier for countries to object to what the Government propose in the European Court.
Mr. Hogg: Does my hon. Friend agree that the Government are introducing the Bill now rather than waiting for new proposals from the European Union because it would be extraordinarily difficult for them to bring forward a Bill prohibiting fur farming when a European Union regime is in force?
Mr. Moss: My right hon. and learned Friend makes an excellent point. The Bill represents a high-risk strategy. It must be obvious, even to this blinkered and politically correct Government, that these provisions will be challenged in the European Court by significant numbers of EU member states. That could be a prolonged and costly exercise, and I wonder whether the Treasury will countenance what the Minister is doing.
What costs are likely to arise, and who will foot the bill? No doubt the Treasury will say that any costs of litigation will have to come out of the budget of the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food--which we already know is under considerable pressure.
The Bill is, as we know, supported by Labour Members, probably on a three-line Whip. They are determined to oppose fur farming--or, more accurately, those who wish to wear fur as part of a legitimate life style--and they are determined to force their views on the rest of us. I can put it no better than Roger Scruton, who said in a recent article that to imagine that we have the right to outlaw those life styles merely because they get up our class-conscious nose is to base our legislation not on public morality but on private snobbery.
10.5 pm
Maria Eagle: I do not intend to detain the House for long, but I wish to make a couple of remarks about the Bill before it goes to the other place, and shortly thereafter, I hope, becomes law.
I welcome the Bill. I listened with care to the debates on my private Member's Bill in the previous Session, and to those at all stages of this Government Bill. We have rehearsed some of the arguments again this evening on Report. However, I note that, despite much of the sound and fury and occasional flights of fancy about furry sheep that we have heard from Conservative Members, at no point thus far in the proceedings of either Bill have they sought to divide the House. It will be interesting to see whether they do so in due course.
The Bill will be welcomed by the majority of the public, by right hon. and hon. Members on both sides of the Chamber, and even by the Fur Breeders Association, which represents all the remaining fur farmers in this country. If I were to confine my feelings about the Bill to one sentence, it is this: I welcome it because it will end the cruel practice of keeping essentially wild animals in extremely small cages merely and solely to collect the commercial value of their fur.
The right hon. and learned Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham (Mr. Hogg), who has taken part in many of our deliberations during the proceedings on both Bills, and whom I have listened to with some respect, called this an odious little Bill. I beg to disagree with him: I think that it is a humane little Bill, and I commend it to the House.
10.7 pm
Mr. David Heath: I agree with the many right hon. and hon. Members who have spoken at various stages of the Bill's proceedings that it is a pleasure to reach Third Reading, especially having listened to some of the deliberations that preceded it. I congratulate the Parliamentary Secretary on taking up this measure and making it a Government Bill. My view is that it always should have been a Government Bill. By that I mean no disrespect to the hon. Member for Liverpool, Garston (Maria Eagle) or my hon. Friend the Member for Lewes (Mr. Baker), who brought forward a similar Bill previously. However, Government legislation is appropriate in this area.
Fur farming is an anachronism, and the public are out of sympathy with it. However, that is not reason enough to ban what has hitherto been a legal activity, and
Parliament must take that matter extremely seriously. Nor do I think that we should act out of our personal taste or distaste for the activity and its consequences. If I have any difference of opinion at all with the Minister, it is about whether public morality or animal welfare comes first. To me, the public morality lies in the indefensibility, in animal welfare terms, of keeping in a small cage an animal which, as the hon. Member for Garston said on Second Reading, is a solitary carnivore, territorial in nature, semi-aquatic and, in its wild state, used to roaming over large areas of countryside. Given the intensive circumstances that are necessary for fur farming, I do not believe that it is possible to bring the detention of those animals up to standards that are acceptable in animal welfare terms. That is why I think that the Bill is to be welcomed and should command support.The important issue of compensation is addressed in the Bill. I would not be happy to support it were there not adequate measures for compensation. I have to say that we have heard more from Conservative Members about the European convention on human rights over the past three or four months than in the previous 20 years. It is extraordinary that this measure, the incorporation of which into British law was so vigorously opposed by Conservative Members, is now seen as the touchstone for the appropriateness of every clause and sentence of legislation. Well, so be it.
We have had a declaration of compatibility for the Bill from the Minister. Were is not for the compensation provisions, the Bill would not be compatible with the European convention. I did not seek to intervene on the amendments that we discussed in the previous debate, but I have to say that if the compensation mechanism was unfair in its application or insufficient to meet the legitimate needs of those affected, the Bill would fall foul of the European Court. So it is incumbent on Ministers to get the compensation scheme right, and I am confident that they will do so. It is a prerequisite for completion of the passage of the Bill.
The last point is whether we have to wait for the European Union to take Communitywide action on fur farming. Sometimes we have some topsy-turvy debates in this place, but when I hear the Conservatives argue that we should not take a decision in the British Parliament on what happens in Britain because we must wait to be overruled by the EU, I fail to understand the position of that party on anything. That view is shared by many people across the country.
The Liberal Democrats support the Bill. I honestly do not know what the Conservative position is. We have heard the Bill described as odious, vile, appalling and dangerous, yet it appears that the Conservatives are not prepared to divide the House on it. Could it be simply that, whatever Conservative Members' personal prejudices, they are afraid to divide the House because they know that public opinion is strongly in favour of the Bill? So are we.
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