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Mrs. Gwyneth Dunwoody (Crewe and Nantwich): I urge my right hon. Friend to think seriously about the matter. Passing legislation because of a deadline set by a football match is not, on the whole, a sensible precedent. We are discussing a fundamental right, and I therefore urge my right hon. Friend to consider seriously giving more time to the period between the introduction of the Bill and its Report stage. It is a question not just of dealing with football hooligans, but of putting on the statute book a precedent that will affect all United Kingdom citizens. I seriously ask my right hon. Friend to reconsider the timing.
Mrs. Beckett: The Government have given a good deal of thought to the timing and consulted on the matter very fully, as my hon. Friend will know. Of course I take her point about these being major issues, but she will know that not only did we have substantial discussion on an earlier private Member's Bill, but there has been some nine months debate of the issues. I hope that she is also aware that recent events highlighted loopholes in existing legislation whose importance had not previously been appreciated, in that the measures on the statute book deal specifically with football-related offences and
convictions, and not with others that may be equally relevant. Of course I take my hon. Friend's observations on board, as I know that my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary will.
Mr. Douglas Hogg (Sleaford and North Hykeham): May I reinforce the point that has just been made by the hon. Member for Crewe and Nantwich (Mrs. Dunwoody)? There has to be a great deal of concern that we are taking the Committee stage on the Floor of the House on Monday, which does not give us time to reflect on what has been said on Second Reading or to receive representations from outside. Moreover, the fact that the Committee stage will not be taken Upstairs precludes the holding of a Special Standing Committee, which in this case would be extremely important in considering whether, for example, there is a breach of articles 5(1) and 14 of the European convention on human rights. There is the further anxiety that there is likely to be no gap between the Committee stage and Report stage.
Finally, is the right hon. Lady aware that even now we have not been given the final copy of the Bill? I went to the Vote Office, and the Clerk said--no doubt perfectly properly--that I could not get a copy until the Bill had been formally laid. We still do not have the completed version of a Bill that we are to debate in five hours.
Mrs. Beckett: The right hon. and learned Gentleman is being a little disingenuous, if I may say so. He knows perfectly well that the Bill has been under continued revision as a result, quite properly, of discussions in and across the House, and that we expect to have the present text available very shortly. He has expressed concern about the interval between discussion today and on Monday. I remind him that his first concern, expressed a week or so ago, was that not all the stages should be taken in one day. The Government have heeded that concern, and I hope that he will recognise that. All that I can say to him is that the Government will do their best to reach agreement on a matter that, I remind him, was urged on us by Conservative Members, who offered full co-operation in dealing with any legislative proposals.
Ms Joan Ryan (Enfield, North): Will my right hon. Friend find time for a debate on employment? I ask that in light of yesterday's figures, which show that a million more people have found jobs since Labour was elected. That is despite a prediction by the shadow Chancellor, the right hon. Member for Kensington and Chelsea (Mr. Portillo), when he was Secretary of State for Employment, that a Labour Government would lose a million jobs. He had the right figure, but I am pleased to say that he was clearly going in the wrong direction, so nothing much has changed there.
This is a most important topic for all our constituents, and it would be useful to focus on the fact that, between 1979 and 1997, under successive Conservative Governments, unemployment doubled, while three years into a Labour Government, we have a million more jobs. Can my right hon. Friend find time for that important debate?
Mrs. Beckett: My hon. Friend makes a powerful and relevant point, and it is certainly noteworthy that, after three years of a Labour Government, we have managed to return employment to the level that it was at when we
last left office, after which Conservative Governments so substantially increased unemployment. However, I fear that, although my hon. Friend makes an important point, I cannot find time for an extra debate on that at present.
Mr. John Redwood (Wokingham): As we are about to see a documentary on the out-of-control spin machine at No. 10 Downing street, will the right hon. Lady ensure that there is an early opportunity after its screening for us to cross-examine a Minister on the work of Mr. Alastair Campbell? It seems to us that the wages of spin are very high for him but a lousy deal for the rest of us.
Mrs. Beckett: I am so bored with hearing the Conservatives rattle on about spin, image and presentation. I cannot be the only Member who remembers photographs of Lady Thatcher sitting in a field, holding a calf. They should not lecture us about image.
Mr. David Taylor (North-West Leicestershire): The Edinburgh CJD surveillance unit has announced that, in a nation of 60 million people, there have been 74 confirmed and probable cases of human variant CJD, of which five have occurred in Leicestershire, which has a population of fewer than 1 million. Statistically, it is highly unlikely that that has occurred by chance. Will the Leader of the House press her colleagues to find time for a parliamentary debate on that very worrying occurrence or at least to use the research and information that may exist in Leicestershire to aid national understanding of this distressing disease?
Mrs. Beckett: My hon. Friend makes a powerful point. I understand the concern that he expressed, but I cannot undertake to find time for a special debate on the Floor in the near future. He might see whether there is an opportunity in Westminster Hall, and it may be tabling for Health questions today. I am confident that he will use other opportunities to raise the matter.
Mr. Nicholas Winterton (Macclesfield): May I return to the Football (Disorder) Bill--a matter that has been raised from both sides of the House by hon. Members with considerable service in, and experience of, the House? Was I right to deduce from what the Leader of the House said that, following the debate today, a decision will be taken on whether the business of the House on Monday will be subject to a guillotine motion? If that is the case, is the right hon. Lady aware that hon. Members are getting a pretty heavy postbag on the Bill, some of it in favour and quite a lot of it against, particularly because of the rather draconian proposals contained in the Bill? Does she accept that, although the Committee stage is being taken on the Floor, the Report stage is often the only stage of a Bill when Back-Bench Members of Parliament have an opportunity of expressing the concerns of their constituents? If it is to be good legislation, is it not right that there should be a full and proper opportunity for all hon. Members who wish to participate to take part in such an important debate?
Mrs. Beckett: The hon. Gentleman makes a serious point, and I take it seriously. Although of course I understand the concerns and reservations of hon.
Members when legislation is dealt with at speed--the hon. Gentleman's interpretation of what I said is quite correct--the Government will, if it appears necessary, propose a timetable motion. When we began our exchanges--I do not mean the hon. Gentleman and I, but across the Dispatch Box--the Opposition offered co-operation for speedy legislative action. The Leader of the Opposition was quoted by The Northern Echo on 23 June as saying:
- I hope the Government accepts our sincere offer of cooperation.
- We cannot proceed on a rushed basis--[Official Report, 4 July 2000; Vol. 353, c. 173.]
Mr. David Chaytor (Bury, North): I draw my right hon. Friend's attention to the agreement reached this week between British Nuclear Fuels and the Kansai electric company in Japan relating to the return of defective nuclear fuel from Japan, and including significant compensation payments. Does she agree that that has major implications for the potential future development of the plutonium trade between Britain and Japan, which could have serious economic and environmental consequences? Does she find it remarkable that there has not been one form of parliamentary scrutiny of the development of that trade? Does she agree that the recent publication by the Select Committee on Trade and Industry on the future of BNFL provides a perfect opportunity for such parliamentary scrutiny?
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