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Mr. Deputy Speaker (Sir Alan Haselhurst): Order. There are about 35 minutes remaining before winding-up speeches are due to begin. I think that four hon. Members are seeking to catch my eye. If there is mutual self-restraint, we shall accommodate everybody.
1.23 pm
Mr. Tony Banks (West Ham): I am grateful for the opportunity to take part in our debate. Listening to today's contributions, one realises that those who characterise pre-recess debates as a sort of nerds' corner clearly have not had the opportunity to pay attention to the excellent points made by hon. Members. Those who heard my hon. Friend the Member for Brent, North (Mr. Gardiner) describe a moving case involving the death of a young constituent will realise just how valuable these opportunities are for all of us.
We are about to go into a long recess and, to be perfectly honest, I want to have a quick whinge. Madam Speaker spoke about cynicism in relation to Parliament, especially the House of Commons, and the description of the long recess as a holiday tends to encourage cynicism. This morning I listened to "Yesterday in Parliament" and heard Rob Orchard and his fellow presenter referring to Members of Parliament going off on holiday to the beach--that is difficult for me in West Ham, which is landlocked--and taking their buckets and spades. That is one of the most ridiculous cliches that journalists use when describing the long summer recess.
I am not unique in terms of my holiday plans. I will have two weeks off, and the rest of the time I will be in my constituency here in London. My constituency office will be functioning daily, and staff holidays are organised so that it will be there every day during a normal working week. Post will be coming in and people will be working here in Westminster. Advice sessions will be held. To describe the long recess as a holiday is untrue, misleading, and tends to encourage that cynicism among voters who feel that we are all about to disappear to a beach to drink vast quantities of pina coladas and enjoy ourselves. I do not know how many Members of Parliament will be in that fortunate position.
Mr. Dominic Grieve (Beaconsfield) rose--
Mr. Banks: Ah, a pina colada drinker.
Mr. Grieve: I will be going away with buckets and spades, but as they are the buckets and spades of my four-year-old and my six-year-old, I count that as work.
Mr. Banks: I do not envy the hon. Gentleman in that regard. However, "Yesterday in Parliament" referred to
Members of Parliament and their buckets and spades. I do not know what the hon. Gentleman does when he is on holiday; perhaps he helps his children to dig holes in the sand and build castles, which seems like good training for an Opposition politician. I wish him well, but I doubt whether he will be doing that for the next three months; if he will, he may develop muscles that I have not previously detected on his otherwise slim torso.I plead with journalists not to perpetuate the myth that the recess is a holiday. They should come to the wonderful area of Stratford--not upon Avon, but in the east end of London--where they will see my staff and myself working hard through the recess, after our holidays.
The other item that I wish to raise has vexed the House considerably in recent days--the role of the Speaker and the election of the Speaker when we return on 23 October. Madam Speaker left us not only with regrets about her departure, but with rather a big problem in terms of finding a successor. I believe that this is a matter that should be determined not by this Parliament but by the next one. That is my opinion, but I suspect that it is not shared by the majority of Members.
Having the election of the Speaker on the very first day we return, 23 October, is awkward. For example, despite what I have just said about the recess, hon. Members do go our different ways and lose contact with one another until our party conferences. Keeping in touch during the recess to discuss the rival merits of different candidates becomes difficult. The list of candidates appears to be growing longer by the day. At present, there seem to be about a dozen people up for the job. Unfortunately, I do not know who they all are. It would be helpful--since I assume that they are all looking for support--if they identified themselves. Perhaps they have done so to their own supporters, but it would be useful if we all knew.
The way in which we are approaching the election of a Speaker leaves far too much to chance, and I very much regret that. There should have been a full day's debate on the role of Speaker and what we as Back-Bench Members--and, indeed, all Members--expect from our Speaker, who, after all, will occupy that distinguished position for five, seven, eight or 10 years. Before the election, we should have an opportunity to describe the sort of person we would like to see occupying the Chair.
There are a number of early-day motions on the subject, which I know that my hon. Friend the Parliamentary Secretary will have noted. That is evidence of the concern in the House about the way in which we are approaching the significant matter of the election.
I do not believe that there should be hustings. A candidate who plays to the crowd, so to speak, even when the crowd happens to be Members of Parliament, is not necessarily the person best suited to the job. None the less, the candidates should be given, if they wish, some opportunity to declare themselves and their opinions on the subjects that exercise us--modernisation, the role of Back Benchers, and keeping the Executive under some sort of control, which we always talk about but never manage to achieve; I doubt that we ever will. If we had a full day's debate, putative Speakers would have the opportunity to declare themselves on those important matters.
Will my hon. Friend consider giving us the opportunity of such a debate by arranging for the House to return on Friday 20 October, before we move to the election of the Speaker on 23 October? Perhaps he will respond to that proposal when he sums up.
My hon. Friend the Member for Workington (Mr. Campbell-Savours) yesterday asked whether the Procedure Committee should be invited to sit during the recess to consider the machinery for the election of the Speaker. As a member of the Procedure Committee, I would be prepared to give up my time--which, clearly, I will not be spending on the beach, with or without bucket and spade--to consider that important matter. The Procedure Committee has not examined it since 1996.
Finally, if none of those proposals finds favour with my hon. Friend or with my colleagues, perhaps Madam Speaker could be asked to invite those candidates of whom she is aware--they could identify themselves to her--to send right hon. and hon. Members during the recess a statement of their intent, and of their views on the issues which they know concern Members of Parliament.
Electing someone to the position of Speaker of the House, which is one of the oldest and most distinguished, responsible and admired positions in the country, should be approached with seriousness. We are doing that, but we should be able to approach the task with more deliberation, and give candidates a clear indication of the qualities that we seek in the person who will occupy the Chair in which you, Mr. Deputy Speaker, are sitting, and which our present Speaker, Betty Boothroyd, has occupied with such distinction during her eight years.
1.33 pm
Sir Richard Body (Boston and Skegness): I hope that the hon. Member for West Ham (Mr. Banks) will forgive me if I do not follow him--although on the subject of the speakership, if only he would suppress some of his prejudices and give us more of his wit, I would be one of those dragging him forcibly from the Back Benches into the Chair.
I revert to a subject on which two hon. Members have already spoken--the national health service. Although the new announcement contains many good features, there are two omissions, which I draw to the attention of those on the Treasury Bench.
The first is the growing shortage of general practitioners, which will become increasingly apparent in the coming decade. In the average practice there are probably five or six GPs, of whom perhaps only one is a woman doctor. One might think that the ratio of men doctors to women doctors should be 50:50. Our teaching hospitals are recruiting as fairly as they can, and none of us would object to an intake of 50 per cent. female students and 50 per cent. male students.
Theoretically that is fine, but in practice it is causing a shortage, because inevitably far too many women doctors drop out of the profession on marriage or on having children. Too often they find it difficult to return. If they are married, they have to find a practice near where their husband can find employment, which may be in another occupation. That presents enormous difficulties for practices that want to increase the number of women doctors in their partnership.
One partnership in my constituency has the average number of partners--six. It set out with the principle of reverse, or positive, discrimination. It said, "We will
exclude any man. We will take only a woman doctor into the partnership this time." There were several applicants, but none of them was able to join the partnership because they were all married and there were no opportunities for their husbands to find employment in the area.The partnership pointed out to me, as have other GPs, that there will be a growing problem. The shortage of GPs available to practise will become greater. The Government must start to consider what will happen about 10 years from now. We cannot retain the ratio of 6:1 or 5:1 in most practices, when the male-female ratio among those who are qualifying is 50:50. It does not work out. I hope that there will be a new policy in the national health service to enable those who have had to leave a practice for a while to take a refresher course, or whatever, in our hospitals. That would help them to come back. There are many new developments in medicine, and many women, having temporarily left the profession, even for a few years, feel diffident about coming back. They feel that they are not sufficiently up to date.
Another problem is the way in which so many cancer patients are being treated, once it is obvious in the view of specialists that they are beyond immediate cure. I suppose that all of us received a letter recently--it may have moved us--from a woman who was told that she was going home to die. That was five years ago, but she is still alive. That is because she turned to alternative treatment. She was admitted to the St. Catherine hospital, which is one of the two places where cancer patients receive a treatment which some practitioners dismiss as cranky. It is holistic, and treats patients medically, spiritually and in other ways.
I raise the issue because eight years ago someone who has been a friend of mine for many years was diagnosed as having a very serious form of cancer. He was told that his life could perhaps be prolonged with chemotherapy, but that he must expect his end to come in less than two years. He rejected the chemotherapy and instead went to an alternative establishment. Not only is he still alive, but he is extremely active. He is 79, and is on a lecture tour in Tokyo. Some would say that that was a remarkable recovery.
Alternative treatment is available. Inevitably, it costs a certain amount of money. I would hope that the NHS could be sufficiently broad-minded to appreciate what it can do. Obviously it does not succeed in every case, but the number of its successes is remarkable. I hope that the Health Ministers and those advise the Department will take a more sympathetic view of those treatments, which have proved successful for so many people.
The other matter that I should like to raise--which is very different, but is of increasing concern in my constituency--is the way in which the minimum wage is failing. [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Bristol, North-West (Dr. Naysmith) says no, but I wish that he could visit my constituency and see what is happening there. I may be being unfair to him, but he may be one of those who turns a blind eye to the illegal immigrants who are slipping into the black economy in their thousands. I cannot believe that he welcomes that, because when they get into the black economy, they are not paid the minimum rate.
People in my constituency are recruited to work in gangs by rogue gangmasters--not the good, decent ones, to whom I have no objection. They often come from the
criminal classes, as the police have confirmed to me, and there are increasingly large numbers of them. Such gangs are required in my constituency, where seasonal labour is immensely important to the growing and processing of vegetable crops. They are taken to the factories, one of which sometimes employs 4,000 a day; others employ perhaps only hundreds. There is scope for illegal immigrants to get into those gangs, but they are paid less than £2 an hour.The hon. Member for Bristol, North-West mocks me, but he would be the last to support those illegal immigrants being recruited by gangmasters and paid less than £2 an hour. That is bad enough for the immigrants, but I urge him to believe that it is pretty unfair on my law-abiding constituents, who do not wish to be in the black economy and who cannot live on a wage of less than £2 an hour.
Just over a month ago, I wrote to the Minister for Employment, Welfare to Work and Equal Opportunities to draw her attention to that important problem. Yesterday I received a reply, not from her, but from someone in the ministerial correspondence unit. It had taken more than four weeks to tell me that the matter would be referred to the Home Office because it was a matter for the Home Secretary. I have been banging on about illegal immigrants for a long time, and I am well aware--we all are--that that is a matter for the Home Office. However, I am emphasising the other side of the coin, which is a matter for the Minister for Employment, Welfare to Work and Equal Opportunities.
It is no good hon. Members saying how wonderful the minimum wage is; it may be, but only for those who are not in the black economy. The black economy is increasing in the tourist trade. Skegness, in my constituency, is a marvellous place for a holiday. Come to Skeggy. I shall be there with my grandchildren, although not with my bucket and spade. Illegal immigrants are employed casually in some places there. I will not name them; I do not want to get them into trouble at the moment.
We need the casual labour provided by such gangs, and there is nothing wrong with the gangmaster system, provided that the gangmasters are honest, well known in the locality and normally recruit members of their own families and their neighbours. They do a decent job when they do not face unfair competition from the rogue gangmasters, who have often moved in from places such as Sheffield, Mansfield and Grimsby, and who recruit the kind of people whom we do not want. I hope that the Minister will urge the Minister for Employment, Welfare to Work and Equal Opportunities to look into that matter as a matter of urgency.
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