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2.2 pm
Mr. Dominic Grieve (Beaconsfield): It is a pleasure to respond to this varied debate on behalf of the Opposition. My hon. Friend the Member for Uxbridge (Mr. Randall) was kind enough to refer to me in my new role, but I still keep my old role. My predecessor, my hon. Friend the Member for South Staffordshire (Sir P. Cormack), who would normally have been at the Dispatch Box and who was inimitable in that role, was thought to be so inimitable
that his role has been carved up between the remaining members of the constitutional affairs team. It is quite likely that the Minister will have to cope with a number of different people appearing at the Dispatch Box in this role to respond for the Opposition. I shall still speak for the Opposition on Scottish matters.We have had 22 speeches from Back Benchers, which undoubtedly is very good news. It has been fascinating to listen to the debate. I have learned that one never learns so much as when one is prepared to spend five or six hours sitting on the Benches listening to debates. It is no surprise to me that the Parliamentary Secretary, Privy Council Office is such a pleasant and courteous man because he, more than any other member of the Government, has to do precisely that. It is a pleasure to see that he will respond to this debate.
Moving slightly away from those conciliatory comments, I should tell the Minister that one of the pleasures of the debate is that it has given hon. Members the opportunity, not too fettered by time, to develop ideas. That is in sharp contrast with the way in which the rest of this week's business has been conducted. There has been a series of timetable motions and guillotines when there was absolutely no question of the Opposition spinning matters out. That was done solely because the Government wanted to conclude business even though they have grossly overloaded the timetable. The nadir was reached yesterday. It is my understanding that Lords amendments have never previously been guillotined when they have come back for consideration in this place, but that is precisely what happened on the Football (Disorder) Bill. It reflects very badly on the way in which the House conducts its business.
Mindful as I am of Madam Speaker's comments in her valedictory message to the House about how we need to conduct ourselves if we are to make a reasonable impact, I ask the Minister to pass on to his colleagues the message that we need more time for sensible debate. Grateful as I am for the opportunity to have such a debate on a diverse range of issues today, the end of this Session has been a very poor example of how we should conduct our business.
As my hon. Friend the Member for Cotswold (Mr. Clifton-Brown) has said, if there were any possibility for the key points that hon. Members make in Adjournment debates to be replied to not only by the Minister but by written replies from the various Departments, it might be an interesting step in ensuring that our speeches had a greater impact. I am conscious of the fact that the Minister, wise as he is, will not necessarily have the answers to all the points raised in this debate.
I shall try to address the issues that have been raised in the debate. I apologise if I touch on some of them only very briefly, but time is very short.
We had several speeches on foreign affairs--by the hon. Members for Tooting (Mr. Cox) and for Finchley and Golders Green (Dr. Vis), and, on Yugoslavia, by my hon. Friend the Member for Uxbridge. The speeches had a common theme: warfare, far from producing conclusive or clear results, has led to constant future tension and problems. We have seen that in Cyprus--a country which I know and love. I spent my honeymoon there, walking around the Akamas peninsula
and swimming in the baths of Aphrodite. It is a divided island with many problems that were never resolved by armed conflict.Equally, my hon. Friend the Member for Uxbridge was right when he said that Yugoslavia's problems had not been resolved by the NATO intervention. That is not to suggest that the NATO intervention was not justified, necessary and inevitable. However, it is a burden on the Government. I simply say to the Minister that he knows that the Government will enjoy the Opposition's support for all constructive action that they take in dealing with those matters.
A huge number of local issues were raised in the debate. They illustrated clearly that hon. Members have a detailed knowledge of what goes on in their areas and constituencies, and the enormous contribution that they can make. My hon. Friend the Member for Teignbridge (Mr. Nicholls) described the problems of a computing company in his constituency. I hope that the Minister will be able to enlighten us on those.
The hon. Member for Upminster (Mr. Darvill) made some compelling points on leisure facilities in his constituency. I sympathise so much with him on mobile phone masts, which are the bane of my constituency and probably that of almost every other hon. Member. Something must be done about them. Something that started with the very good intention of trying to free up regulation to enable people to have access to cellnet phones and others has gone completely haywire. Something has to be done about it.
I was a little surprised to hear the comments of the hon. Member for North-West Norfolk (Dr. Turner), which seemed to be a classic example of a Back Bencher taking an opportunity to have a dig at the Government. Two points emerged from his speech. The first--which he did not make--on pensions was that the truth is that, since the national pension was established in the 1940s, all Governments have been conning pensioners and the electorate. Successive Governments have behaved like Mr. Maxwell: they have raided the pension fund to pay for their current expenditure.
I tell the hon. Member, on a completely non-partisan basis, that that is why the crisis exists. Even the Minister knows that there is very little solution to it. However, I commend to the hon. Gentleman the Conservative party's suggestion that it is time that we got away from gimmick offerings to pensioners. We need to make some progress in ensuring that pensioners have a set pension that is higher than it is now, while getting away from gimmickry costing great sums to administer.
My hon. Friend the Member for Orpington (Mr. Horam) touched on the issue of hospitals in his constituency and the problems caused by the merger of health authorities. We have in the health service an enormous bureaucratic organisation. I sometimes wonder whether we are benefiting people by the constant interference in trying to change, reform and streamline. There was a health service in this country before the NHS existed. It was provided by a range of voluntary institutions, which also took in those who could not afford to pay. There are lessons to be learned from that, even if the national health service has much to commend it.
My hon. Friend the Member for Southend, West (Mr. Amess) dealt with many topics that were relevant to his constituency. Again, he showed a complete mastery
of his local problems. I share his views on the disgraceful release today of convicted murderers in Northern Ireland. Some are being released under the terms of the Good Friday agreement, but it beggars belief that, having included a minimum period of two years in the agreement, an exemption is made off the cuff, through exercise of the royal prerogative and the royal pardon, to accommodate a vicious killer who has not served that requisite period. We have approached the matter inconsistently.The hon. Member for Harrow, West (Mr. Thomas) made important points about wheelchair use. It is not the first time that such a problem has been raised. I have certainly experienced it and I hope that the Parliamentary Secretary will pass on those comments to his colleagues.
The hon. Member for Brent, North (Mr. Gardiner) made a speech that was rightly heard in silence. It seems to me, prima facie, that he presented a massive indictment of the operation of professional procedures against doctors. It is impossible to comment further, but I hope that the matter can be examined. Perhaps one of the problems is that the existence of so many doctors means that professional control inside the profession is more difficult to achieve. The question whether people should be suspended during inquiries should be considered. The House should be grateful that the hon. Gentleman has brought it to our attention.
The hon. Member for North Cornwall (Mr. Tyler) made many points about tourism in his county. I have occasionally taken a bucket and spade to north Cornwall and I hope to do so in future.
The hon. Member for Harlow (Mr. Rammell) displayed complete expertise in his subject. I disagree with him about pensions. He sent a shot across the Government's bows, but he also asked about pensions and the minimum pension guarantee. As I said earlier, we must get away from gimmickry on pensions.
My hon. Friend the Member for Cotswold mentioned a strategic road through his constituency. I have driven along the road to which he referred; it is a genuine problem. I hope that the Government will be able to find a way in which to deal with it within the available cost parameters.
The speech of my hon. Friend the Member for Boston and Skegness (Sir R. Body) was ill received by some hon. Members--for little reason. My hon. Friend is a great expert on agriculture and farming in this country, and the House would be wise to listen to him. His comments on gangers and the way in which the system works reveal a scandal. We live in such a regulated society, and people are therefore more apt to wish to break the regulations.
The hon. Member for Reading, West (Mr. Salter) did not seem to understand that. He made several points about policing, and I share some of his anxieties, as my constituency also lies in the Thames valley. He mentioned the total resource allocation formula; it has nothing to do with the previous Government. My constituency is suffering because of that formula under this Government. The hon. Member did not make many good points on that.
The hon. Member for Edmonton (Mr. Love) made important points about abandoned vehicles. I am sure that his views will be shared by many hon. Members. The increasing number of abandoned vehicles in my constituency is enormous. They are burnt out and they constitute a danger. There must be a simpler way to deal with them when they are on the street.
Let me briefly consider several wider issues. The hon. Member for Bristol, North-West (Dr. Naysmith) considered mental health services. He made an excellent speech, and I share his sentiments. As one of the chairmen of the all-party mental health group, I greatly sympathise with the points that he made. Mental health legislation must be addressed. That is a massive task, and I hope that the Parliamentary Secretary realises that he will have Conservative Members' support when the Government decide to grasp the nettle. It is not a party political issue; it is a very complex one.
My hon. Friend the Member for Ruislip-Northwood (Mr. Wilkinson) spoke about Harefield hospital--a matter of great concern to my constituents. In my experience, the disruption caused by removing a centre of excellence is often extremely damaging. I hope that the Government will consider that fact as they decide how to resolve the issue.
The hon. Member for Shipley (Mr. Leslie) spoke about landfill at Denholme. As there is a landfill site at Denham in my constituency, I thought for a moment that the hon. Gentleman was straying away from his patch. His comments are correct and raised an interesting point. The Government believe in devolution, but the hon. Gentleman came to the House to raise an issue because he realises that, when there is local government mismanagement, the buck stops with him as Member of Parliament. It was a bold step to take. I often reply to my constituents that Parliament has devolved such matters to local authorities to decide--even though I may not agree with that.
The Conservatives propose that there should be a method whereby local communities can appeal against the planning decisions of local authorities. That proposal should commend itself to the hon. Gentleman. I hope that he will reflect on it and pass it to his colleagues.
I agree with the hon. Member for West Ham (Mr. Banks) that we work hard in the vacation--it is an important part of our activities. Some of us also work hard with buckets and spades. The path of shining light could be followed by MPs; it is commendable to do some hard labour. I certainly recommend that path to any hon. Members who are able-bodied enough to take it.
My hon. Friend the Member for Mid-Dorset and North Poole (Mr. Fraser) dealt with a question relating to the House. We should be able to divert our phone calls, although perhaps not for the reason he gave.
I hope that the speech of my hon. Friend the Member for Faversham and Mid-Kent (Mr. Rowe) was not valedictory. It was a considerable speech that dealt with some philosophical points of great importance. I cannot do justice to it in the time remaining for my speech, but some of the points that he made reflect directly on the operation of government in this country. The question whether government should be by representative democracy or by focus group is critical.
At present, we suffer from the fact that we have a Government who court popularity; their use of referendums or other devices resembles the Government of Napoleon III. Indeed, the Prime Minister was once heard to say that he wanted to make government in this country less feudal and more napoleonic. I regret that that is exactly what he seems to be achieving--although he may have been thinking of another Napoleon.
The Prime Minister also suffers from the Tinkerbell factor. When the light starts to go out, or something goes wrong, he needs reassurance so that the light can shine again. As he is not receiving that reassurance at present, I think that he needs a long holiday. I am happy to wish him a good holiday. Indeed, I wish every Member of the House a good holiday, especially the Minister, whose comments I look forward to hearing.
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