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Mr. Jeremy Corbyn (Islington, North): I absolutely agree with the hon. Gentleman's criticisms of the high cost of the appeal system. However, what would be the exact effect if the House did not pass the order today? Would it not lead to the greater problem of return to the previous system, which was even more expensive?
Mr. Hughes: As I understand it, the answer is no. There are already regulations in force that supersede the first set of regulations and deal with two matters. The first matter is the fee, which those regulations imposed,
and the second is the definition of family. If the order were revoked, the Government would be obliged in a new order both to define family and to say whether there will be a fee. Consequently, it would be better for the Government to say that they will replace this order with another one--so that there will not be the type of gap that the hon. Gentleman suggests, or the confusion that would be produced by changing the arrangements three times in three months.Another complication--I am aware of it only because of my conversations with citizens advice bureaux--is that, for a long time after the new order came into force at the beginning of October, new appeal forms were not even available at some of our missions, including the one in Brussels. Therefore, the new system has not even been working.
Ministers argue that the charge is necessary to cover costs, and that such charges are applied across government. They also argue that such charging is consistent with Government policy. However, it is not consistent with Government policy to charge for social welfare appeals. Such charging is certainly not a feature of Government policy. Although people may occasionally be charged for appeals, they are charged nowhere near the rate now being proposed. Additionally, those charges are certainly not made in this sphere of the law. People who go to an immigration or an employment tribunal are not charged huge sums up front. That just does not happen. It seems entirely unjustified to argue that, suddenly, people in this category should be subject to such charging.
The order affects many cases. I am told that, before they were abolished, visitors' appeals comprised one third of the work done by the United Kingdom Immigration Advisory Service, and that the service was successful in between 50 and 60 per cent. of the cases that it took. There is a considerable record of success in appeals, as there has been in all stages of such cases. The regulations simply encourage people either to have an appeal on the paperwork or not to have an appeal at all.
The Government make another argument. In September, in a letter, the Parliamentary Secretary, Lord Chancellor's Department, said that if someone applies for a visa and is turned down,
- the appellant may qualify for representation funded by the Legal Services Commission.
Ministers also argue that there will be a great new burden on the Immigration Appellate Authority. They say that, annually, there could be about 19,500 family visit appeals, of which about 20 per cent--almost 4,000 appeals--will be full oral hearings. That would be about 7 per cent. of all the work done by the Immigration Appellate Authority. Is it right that there should be
charges only for those 7 per cent.--people who often need a quick decision and a quick appeal--but not for anyone else? There is also the thin end of the wedge argument. If we start having charges for visa appeals, why not for settlement appeals or all the other immigration appeals? No logical case has been made on that basis.Members may accept that there should be a fee, but we have never debated the nature, level or appropriateness of a fee, or the ability of people to pay. Lord Bassam said that the Government would be in a position to review the arrangements after having seen what happened from 1 October. But how can we review those who did not appeal? How can we review how many people were discouraged from doing so? It would seem to be a review of facts that are incapable of discovery.
Mr. Gerald Bermingham (St. Helens, South): The cynic in me is beginning to grow. The more expensive we make the system, the less likely people are to appeal. We make the system prohibitively expensive so nobody will appeal and we get over the problem. Surely that cannot be right.
Mr. Hughes: The hon. Gentleman--from his legal and constituency experience--makes it clear that he regards this as an unsatisfactory order in terms of its cost. I endorse what he says. By reducing the number of appeals significantly, the Government will say that they do not need to change the system, as it causes no significant cost to the Exchequer.
This year, the Home Secretary has said to the chief executive of the Immigration Advisory Service that family visits often relate to an important event like a wedding. If they are important events, people should be entitled to attend them without barriers such as this being put in their way.
Following the Chancellor's comprehensive spending review in the summer, the additional amount allocated for immigration control was £600 million. Let us assume that 80 per cent. of the Government's anticipated 19,500 cases opt for a paper-only appeal and that 20 per cent. opt for the full appeal. The total cost of administering those appeals would be just over £4 million. Even if most went for an oral appeal, it would cost about £10 million--that is out of a budget allocation, from the Government's own estimates, of £600 million. That amount would be recovered from some of the poorest people who would ever want to come to this country and who may only want to come once. Also, it is not true that other areas of government have to be self-financing.
Mr. Marsha Singh (Bradford, West): We are told that the fees are to cover the costs of the appeals system. With the fee being £500, it is likely that only people with a high chance of success will appeal and pay the money. If few appeals go forward, and we have set the system up, how can we cover the cost? Also, if people succeed in their appeals and their money is refunded, how will we cover the costs?
Mr. Hughes: The hon. Gentleman makes a good point. This House has never debated the idea that we fully recover the cost of anything in the context of immigration and the Home Office by charges.
Mr. Menzies Campbell (North-East Fife): Or the legal aid system.
Mr. Hughes: My right hon. and learned Friend is right. Many charges are set on the basis of what is fair and equitable, with the system based on encouraging people into the system, not discouraging them from using it.
Fiona Mactaggart (Slough): The hon. Gentleman says that we have never discussed charges. Is he aware that the Foreign and Commonwealth Office's departmental report suggests that, in the present year, the cost of the entry clearance operation will be £72.7 million, and that we will receive more than that in entry clearance fees? The question here is not of covering costs but of making a profit.
Mr. Hughes: The hon. Lady has great experience in this area. My point was that we have never debated whether any charges were meant to be self-financing. In any event, in this case, they are not, if we ring-fence the issue or take into account the budget as a whole--nor should they be, because the system should allow people to put their case.
Experience clearly shows that many visa applications are wrongly turned down and that many succeed on appeal that should not have been refused in the first place. The regulations are extremely inequitable and unjustified. The costs, even if one believes that there should be costs at all, are far too high. No one was ever told that those would be the costs, and the House should not agree to them. We should reject the regulations and ask the Government to come up with proposals that our constituents can find much more acceptable.
9.41 pm
The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mr. Jack Straw): I hope to deal with as many of the concerns of both Government and Opposition Members as I can. I well understand those concerns, even as I advise the House to reject the prayer against the regulations, not least because, if we accepted it, there would be no regulations in force on visitor appeals.
I want to respond directly to some wholly inaccurate statements made by the hon. Member for Southwark, North and Bermondsey (Mr. Hughes). His most inaccurate assertion was that the charges were a surprise and that it had never been said, in debate on the legislation, that there would be a fee. That is simply wrong. The first time that the House was told that the Government had it in mind to charge a fee for visitor appeals was in the White Paper published at the end of July 1998, Cm 4018.
Paragraph 510 of the White Paper says:
- There is no new money to fund appeal rights for visitors. The Government therefore proposes that those who wish to appeal against the refusal to grant entry clearance as a visitor should pay for at least part of the costs of their appeal. The costs will vary depending on the way in which the appeal is disposed of. It will still be open to an applicant to make a fresh application for a visa at any time.
On Second Reading, I was asked about visitor appeals and I said:
- Part IV therefore fulfils our manifesto commitment to reinstate a right of appeal to those who are refused a visa for the purpose of a family visit. Provision may be made by regulations that those who wish to appeal will have to meet the costs of doing so, but fees would be refunded to those whose appeals were allowed.--[Official Report, 22 February 1999; Vol. 326, c. 43.]
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