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Dr. Norman A. Godman (Greenock and Inverclyde): My hon. Friend is absolutely right about the Minister. I think he is the best we have had since John Silkin. My hon. Friend makes an important point about the need to ensure that our fishermen get the same benefits as those in other member states of the European Union.
Mr. Mitchell: I am most grateful for that contribution, and I support absolutely what my hon. Friend has just said about the need for intervention and about my hon. Friend.
The first meeting was on 6 September, when the fishermen were told that officials would examine all options. At the next meeting on 15 September, they were told that this is a short-term crisis and that the United Kingdom had neither the funds nor the mechanism to provide a package of emergency aid to offset the price of fuel. My answer to that is: where there is a will there is a way, and the will and the way have existed in other countries, so why not here? What emerges from the account of that meeting given by the National Federation of Fishermen's Organisations is that there was no sense of urgency about helping the industry.
Ministers referred to light dues. We have been talking about light dues for 10 years, ever since they were introduced. They should never have been put on in the first place, but they have not been taken off. We have been talking about satellite monitoring costs for three years, and there is no sign of help for the British industry. There are the GMDSS--global maritime distress and safety system--costs, survey charges and all the other regulatory burdens. There is talk of looking at those, but how urgently will they be looked at? When will they be looked at? What will be done about them? It is an urgent crisis now. The discussions at the meeting seem to have
exasperated the NFFO, because nothing was said about help in an immediate crisis, besides looking at ways to reduce fuel consumption, which the industry is doing anyway quite naturally.The Government hope for a major restructuring package. They hope that it will be done on the European scale, with money coming from the European Union, rather than the British Government. There is a need for a restructuring package, but from what I understand from the fishing industry, even the European Commission is blowing hot and cold on that proposal. The latest wind is apparently colder than the previous wind.
Why does fishing always have to be the fall guy? I know that the finances of the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food are in a mess. I know that it has difficulty fulfilling all its commitments. I know that there has been a huge expense for agriculture, but why is it always fishing that is cut? Why is it never fishing that is helped, in the way that agriculture has been helped? Why is help postponed, apparently till the Ides of Brussels? Why is it always so slow to emerge from MAFF?
Given the Treasury's usual tactic of blocking access to European funds, what hope do we have of getting help from Europe? The answer must be support for the British fishing industry that is comparable with that provided by European Governments--certainly some form of support is needed. It is not beyond the ingenuity of Government to find a way to support the fishing industry to see it through the immediate crisis.
There is a long-term restructuring package. That is true; the Government have talked about it. We need that, but not now. What we need now is immediate help to survive: support to keep fishing going in the light of escalating fuel costs. The only answer must be an emergency package now.
I therefore say to the Minister--who has had to listen patiently to an argument that he has heard many times; he always does listen--that he must do something. The British fishing industry needs help to keep going and to benefit from the major restructuring package that might be planned. However, to keep the industry going, something must be done. Please do something--do something now.
12.2 am
The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Mr. Elliot Morley): I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Great Grimsby (Mr. Mitchell) on advancing a persuasive argument and a strong case. I am grateful to him for his comments, and to my hon. Friend the Member for Greenock and Inverclyde (Dr. Godman), who has a long experience of the fishing industry and long connections with it. I know that the concerns of my hon. Friend the Member for Great Grimsby are shared by my hon. Friend the Member for Waveney (Mr. Blizzard), who raised them in a question to the Prime Minister, and by my hon. Friend the Member for Brigg and Goole (Mr. Cawsey), who hails from Grimsby, and has long connections with the town and knows the industry well.
I concede that there is a problem in relation to fuel costs in the fishing industry. The difficulty is how we can
address it, both in relation to the resources that I have available to me in the Ministry and within European law--the issue of state aids. It is true that the fishing industry does not pay tax on its fuel. Therefore, any measures to reduce taxation, which have been called for by the haulage sector, for example, will not work in the fishing industry. There is not much that we can do there.It is fair to say that the impact of fuel charges has hit different sectors of the industry in different ways. Beamers have been very badly hit because of the high fuel consumption of those fishing boats. I accept that some of the other larger vessels, such as the freezer fleet, have been hit, too.
In relation to the Grimsby fleet, I should have thought that the anchor-seiners were among the lower fuel consumers. It is an environmentally friendly way of fishing; it is very selective and a large mesh is used. Ironically, in relation to costs, they are being rewarded for their fishing methods.
As my hon. Friend rightly said, I have met industry representatives on various occasions. They have made their case very well and powerfully, and I accept it. I have been examining the issue of costs facing the industry. As my hon. Friend the Member for Great Grimsby will understand, however, some of those costs fall to other Departments, such as the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions in relation to light dues and Marine Coastguard Agency inspection costs. I am in discussions with the DETR on whether anything can be done about that. As my hon. Friend said, however, it is an issue of budgets and the Department's commitments. Nevertheless, I understand the case that the industry has made and I have agreed to look into it.
At the last meeting, industry representatives made their case to my right hon. Friend the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, who also said that, if there are issues that we can explore, we would be only too pleased to do so. There are, however, no obvious solutions. I realise that the situation is made worse by a shortage of fish and--in some cases, particularly in the export market--by the price of fish. Exports account for up to 90 per cent. of the market for much of the wet fish fleet. As the high pound affects the prices received by parts of the fleet, joining the euro would help, but I know that my hon. Friend has mixed views about that.
My hon. Friend made some points about the packages offered by other countries. I have examined those packages very carefully, and some of them are probably legal. The bulk of the Dutch package, for example, is a decommissioning scheme for the beam sector, and much of the remainder is to promote sustainable fishing. Its basic purpose, therefore, is to help beam trawlers to convert from beam trawling, which is perfectly legal under the structural funds. We ourselves have funds available to help fishermen who want to convert to other forms of fishing.
The Greek Government are offering to continue 100 per cent. refund of fuel tax. However, we are doing that; there is nothing new about it. They have also been talking to the oil companies about trying to keeping down the fuel price for the fishing fleet. We might like very much to explore a bit more what the oil companies can do for the United Kingdom fishing fleet, which is vulnerable in selling its fish through markets.
I am not so sure that the French package is legal. In the example that my hon. Friend gave, the important point is not so much what the French Government are doing, but the intention of what they are doing. There is no doubt that the French Government presented their package as a reduction per litre of fuel, or that presenting a package in such a manner constitutes a state aid. I am sure that the Commission will have something to say about it. It has already asked the French Government to provide details of their packages so that it can carefully examine them. Although the legality of the package is a matter for the Commission, I have no doubt whatever that, if the Commission decides that it is illegal, it will take action against the French and the state aids will have to be repaid, as has happened before.
Mr. Mitchell: But when will action be taken?
Mr. Morley: We know how slowly the European Court can operate. I realise, therefore, that the possibility of such action is not a great short-term comfort to our industry.
Last week, at the Fishing Council, when I discussed the matter informally with a French Minister, I said that the French package was altering competition policy within the European Union fishing fleet. He replied that, as my hon. Friend said, fishing opportunities are not equal. He complained bitterly that French fishermen were complaining to him that United Kingdom fishermen have an advantage in business tax, capital gains tax, corporation tax and social taxes. The United Kingdom fishing industry pays the lowest class II stamp rate in Europe. We have some of the lowest on-going taxation costs, as the French Minister had been reminded by his own industry. We should take that into account.
It is also true that fuel costs are cyclical. My hon. Friend was right to say that, in the past 18 months, the fuel price has essentially trebled. Of course such an increase has an impact. It also demonstrates to fuel protesters, who claim that the issue is soley one of taxation, that even an industry that is paying no fuel tax whatever is still being hit. The bulk of the increase has come from the changes in world prices and the impact that that has had on the fishing industry, which I concede. It is likely that, as part of the cycle, fuel prices can go down as well as up. We are now in the winter period--a period of peak demand for heating oil, which affects the diesel oil market and the overall price of marine diesel.
I told the industry that MAFF would pay for a consultant who would look not only at fuel efficiency, but at how the market works in relation to fuel and whether the industry could collectively advance purchase. The Dutch buy their fuel on the advance market collectively through their producer organisations, and I was willing to pay for a consultant to advise the industry about that. The industry felt that that was not the answer because of the overall costs, and I understand that point of view.
We have available structural funds that can help the industry in several ways, although they are not designed to compensate in any way for movements in oil prices. My hon. Friend the Member for Great Grimsby is right that if we are to have major cod recovery programmes or a multi-annual guidance programme 5, we may need some substantial restructuring packages and the cost implications may be significant. I understand that and, depending on changes in fleet size and the MAGP, there
may be a need to look at the resources that we have available with the structural funds. If so, I am prepared to make the case for the industry on that basis.I appreciate that that does not deal with the immediate problem of fuel charges. It is not an easy problem to deal with. Most countries are not really giving their fishing
industries anything more than we are giving our industry, which still enjoys many lower payments and taxes than those other countries. I have given an undertaking--The motion having been made after Ten o'clock, and the debate having continued for half an hour, Madam Deputy Speaker adjourned the House without Question put, pursuant to the Standing Order.
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