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Sir John Stanley (Tonbridge and Malling): I return to the matter raised last week by the hon. Member for Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney (Mr. Rowlands). Is the right hon. Lady aware that it was the unanimous recommendation of the four Select Committees of this House that make up the quadripartite Committee that there should be a new system of parliamentary scrutiny of arms export licence applications, and that it should begin at the start of the next Session? Does the right hon. Lady agree that if the four Secretaries of State involved fail to make a response to the quadripartite Committee's report by the time the House prorogues at the end of next week, they will be in serious breach of their obligations to Select Committees?
Mrs. Beckett: No, I do not accept that at all. That the four Select Committees should have made such a recommendation is one important matter, but also important is the fact that the recommendation itself is very serious and far reaching. The House would be right to expect the Government to take that recommendation seriously and to give it full and serious consideration.
However, Select Committees recommend many things, and this one is not the easiest to implement. The right hon. Gentleman asks that a response be made to the
recommendation that procedures be established to allow prior scrutiny of arms export licence applications before the next Session of Parliament begins. However, the next Session begins in only 10 days' time, and my memory tells me that something like 6,000 export licence applications are involved. I think that the right hon. Gentleman would be unfair if he were to suggest that the Government were not taking the matter seriously. We are, and I am sure that a proper response will be made when the issue has been considered fully.
Dr. Ashok Kumar (Middlesbrough, South and Cleveland, East): Will my right hon. Friend make some time available for a debate on the manufacturing industry? About 800 jobs have been lost on Teesside, and the steel industry is a fundamental requirement for our manufacturing base. I have raised this matter with her a few times before, so will she give it some serious thought?
Mrs. Beckett: I certainly will. I recognise, as does my hon. Friend, that although the number of manufacturing jobs being lost pales into insignificance beside the number lost under the Conservative party, that is no consolation to those whose jobs are at risk; nor is it any consolation to know that there is restructuring in the steel industry across Europe. Although I fear that I cannot find time for a special debate on manufacturing industry at this time, I remind my hon. Friend that we have Trade and Industry Question Time on 30 November.
Mr. Roger Gale (North Thanet): Shortly before the summer recess, the Select Committee on Broadcasting published its report on the future televising of the House of Commons. The House authorities are shortly to go out to tender for a new contract to operate the televising of the House. We have discussed much of the future modernisation of the House, yet most of the British people still cannot see the House of Commons on terrestrial television, and virtually none of the work of Standing Committees is available either on television or on the internet. Before we go out to tender, could we please have time allotted on the Floor of the House--not in Westminster Hall--so that the whole House can discuss the report and decide what it wants to do about this extension of democracy?
Mrs. Beckett: The hon. Gentleman makes an important point, which I accept. However, he will recognise that were this to be debated in Westminster Hall, any Member could attend, so a debate there would not confine attendance or participation. It is never easy to find time at this end of the parliamentary year and I cannot give him an assurance that I will find time for the debate that he seeks, but I take his point on board and will give it further thought.
Mr. Dennis Skinner (Bolsover): Does my right hon. Friend recall that a few weeks ago I called for an investigation into the Short money and the fact that the Tories had received more than £3 million from the taxpayer as a result of the Government's generosity? That is public money. Newspaper reports in the past three or four weeks have suggested that instead of being used for parliamentary Tory party purposes in this building, the money is being transferred to Conservative central office. There was a report in the press last week suggesting that
the Tories were so embarrassed that they would send the money back to the taxpayer. Has the money been received? If not, there is a need for an investigation and a statement on how the Tories are fiddling more than £3 million of public money.
Mrs. Beckett: Well, my hon. Friend makes a point about issues that emerged from an examination by one of the Select Committees. I find myself in some difficulty--[Interruption.] Not in as much difficulty as Conservative Members--I should not laugh too soon if I were them. I take the view that the Select Committees of this House are appointed to scrutinise the work of Government. I am reluctant to become drawn into anything that impinges on the work of the Opposition. Equally, I understand my hon. Friend's concern if it is suggested that in some way the money that is made available from the taxpayer is being misused.
I feel quite confident in saying that no money has been returned; and considering that the Conservative party has never sent back the money that it had from Asil Nadir, I should not expect it if I were my hon. Friend.
Mr. Paul Burstow (Sutton and Cheam): Can the right hon. Lady find time for a debate on the NHS plan to explore why the Government have rejected the royal commission's proposals that personal care should be free? As a result, dementia sufferers and many other people with chronic illnesses will continue to be pursued by debt collectors and forced to sell their homes--something that the Prime Minister assured us would never happen under a Labour Government.
Mrs. Beckett: What the Prime Minister assured the hon. Gentleman and his constituents was that a Labour Government would find ways of putting in place the support systems needed to assist people in those difficult circumstances. I did not say that there would not be a debate on the NHS plan, merely that I am not in a position to find time for one at present.
Mr. John Cryer (Hornchurch): My right hon. Friend will know of the increased protection for wetlands and sites of special scientific interest announced recently by our right hon. Friend the Minister for the Environment. That issue is extremely relevant to my constituency, where the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds has just saved Rainham marsh from development for future generations. May we have a debate on environmental protection in the near future?
Mrs. Beckett: I was not aware of the result to which my hon. Friend refers; it is yet another example of the good work carried out by the RSPB and others. I am sure that his constituents will welcome both it and the role that he played in the campaign. I fear that I cannot find time for a special debate on the matter, but my hon. Friend may be able to find time to contribute to tomorrow's debate on the Environment Agency.
Mr. Andrew Rowe (Faversham and Mid-Kent): About three weeks ago, the right hon. Lady informed me that the number of amendments moved by the Government in the House of Lords during this Session was more than 3,800.
Since then it appears that the number will probably rise to 5,000. That is a remarkable statement of incompetence in the drafting of Government legislation. Before the right hon. Lady seeks refuge in a quotation from 17 years ago, will she confirm that she is actually telling the House that, no matter how incompetently she and her predecessors may have behaved, there is absolutely no hope of improvement? Will she make a statement that in the next Session the Government might do a little better?
Mrs. Beckett: I am not aware of the figure that the hon. Gentleman quotes, nor indeed am I going back 17 years--but a mere 11. I have not checked the record, but, I suspect that if I were to do so, I should find that the hon. Gentleman, too, voted for all the guillotines that he and others now condemn.
As for there being no hope of improvement, I certainly accept that, in the 1970s, it was unusual for there to be large numbers of Government amendments, although, obviously, all Governments amend legislation in response to representations made to them during the passage of Bills--that is why the House scrutinises legislation. We did get into a way of working that meant large numbers of Government amendments. It happened under Lady Thatcher and has always been a cause of some concern to me. As to whether there is hope for improvement, I am not a believer in empty words; I simply say to the hon. Gentleman, "Wait and see."
Mr. Harry Barnes (North-East Derbyshire): Is it not utterly disgraceful that, at this very moment, machinery is being crated up at Biwater at Clay Cross to be sent out to India so that the whole plant can be transferred there? Not only is that causing the loss of 700 jobs at Clay Cross, but in time it will affect Stanton near Ilkeston and the foundry at Staveley in my constituency. Surely, the House of Commons should not stand idly by while that is taking place, but should hold a debate on early-day motion 1084.
[That this House finds it to be totally unacceptable that the French-based multi-national company Saint-Gobain should have acquired the shares of Biwater (Clay Cross) Ltd for the immediate purpose of closing the plant; is deeply concerned that this will lead to the loss of 700 jobs and the devastation of the local community; is aware that Saint-Gobain's objectives in moving to close the plant are (a) to destroy the pipe manufacturing capacity of a key rival, especially in international markets, (b) to capture Biwater's extensive and growing order book, essentially for transfer to overseas companies and (c) to transfer and asset strip the plant's machinery; and calls upon the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry to prevent the closure by making full and effective use of powers available to him under the Fair Trading Act 1973, which includes the possibility of setting up an immediate inquiry into the take-over by the Competition Commission and halting all moves to close the plant while the Commission undertakes an in-depth investigation which it is believed will lead to the saving of the plant and the condemnation of Saint-Gobain's actions.]
In addition, we should discuss what is happening in relation to India.
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