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Mr. Bill O'Brien (Normanton): I can advise hon. Members that a company in the north-east will collect tyres and recycle them free of charge. Obviously, this information is not widespread. We should make more use of the company that collects tyres and recycles them.
Mr. Bennett: That was a nice commercial from my hon. Friend. It might do us all some good if he put the name of the company into the record during his speech so that we can all send our tyres there.
There are two sides to the agency's supervision of waste management. First, it has to put more effort into regulating landfill sites and making sure that they are properly supervised, that they are genuine and that there are no attempts to distribute the stuff that ought to go to landfill sites onto agricultural land, as is happening in some places. Secondly, the agency needs to do much more research into finding alternative uses for some of the more bulky waste. It also ought to have much better information about what is in people's dustbins, so that it can persuade us to be more sensible in our purchasing and buy fewer goods that are wrapped, for example.
Mr. Norman Baker (Lewes): Does the hon. Gentleman agree that as landfill becomes the preferred solution for less of our waste in future, it is important that we adopt a strategy based on waste minimisation, re-use and recycling, rather than filling the gap with incineration, which has its own problems?
Mr. Bennett: I certainly accept that. We must not waste resources through incineration or landfill.
I am concerned about the fact that the Environment Agency decided on the complicated idea of matrix management. The Select Committee found it difficult to understand--and so, I fear, did rather a lot of people in the agency. The agency needs to look carefully at some
of its management methods and consider who it recruits. We were told that it was recruiting a lot of young graduates. I am sure that some of them will do an extremely good job, but particularly when it comes to talking to industry about fairly complicated industrial processes, there is an advantage if the person who is doing the regulating has been involved in those processes at some time and can talk on equal terms with the representatives of a company, particularly if the agency is trying to persuade that company to develop a new best way of doing something, which the management is not that keen on.The agency should also promote openness. Members of the Select Committee were most impressed when we visited the agency's headquarters when it was developing its web pages. I think that staff understand that the new technology available through the internet can have tremendous advantages in getting their message across. However, they must remember that a large number of people do not have access to the web.
The Committee received evidence that in pulling the new organisation together there was not evenness across all the regions. That issue needs to be considered carefully, particularly when the agency is controlling industrial processes. In the context of competition between different industrial producers, it is important to ensure that there is evenness between regions, and that the agency does not take a slightly more relaxed view in one region than in another.
There was a complaint, which I think was fully justified, that on occasions the Environment Agency was slow to respond to requests for information to get on with the process. For industry in particular, it is important that decisions are made quickly, as time costs money. It is also important that individuals who make requests for information receive timely and quick responses.
We had some reservations about the agency's attempts to name and shame. It is important to exert as much pressure as possible to achieve compliance with environmental laws and regulations. It is also important to give credit to companies and individuals who behave in an environmentally responsible way. If the agency shames people, it must make sure that it gets it absolutely right. Simply totting up the fines imposed and then naming the companies that had received the largest fines was not, in my view, particularly scientific. I do not particularly want there to be prosecutions, but when prosecutions are justified, that is the most effective way of shaming companies. However, it is sad that often the courts did not impose the fines at a level that I and many others believe would protect the environment. In their response, the Government have made it clear that they are encouraging the courts to take environmental crime seriously.
Mr. James Gray (North Wiltshire): At present, environmental cases are heard in the magistrates court, which cannot impose a fine above a certain level. Is there not an argument for allowing cases involving those crimes to be heard in the Crown court?
Mr. Bennett: There are arguments about where these crimes should be tried. The real point is that strengthening the impact of the Environment Agency would lead to enforcement, and we would not need prosecutions. In a sense, a prosecution is a failure on everybody's part--but we need to get the message across that environmental crime is serious.
On planning issues, there is a problem. The Environment Agency is in most cases a statutory consultee, and if it says that a planning application is not a good idea, but does not send someone to the public inquiry, it has been assumed that the agency does not consider the matter very important. It is essential that the agency look carefully at the use of its resources, but if a planning application goes against environmental policy, it should try to be represented at the inquiry. I shall say more about that when I talk about flooding.
It was hoped that the Environment Agency would be the country's environmental body, but with fly tipping there is a slight division of responsibility between the agency and local authorities. It was suggested, and I think that there is some evidence to confirm the idea--although the Environment Agency still denies it--that the landfill tax has led to an increase in fly tipping. We need more vigorous enforcement. Some people have to do the nasty job of going through the fly-tipped material to find evidence of whether it comes from industry--after all, industry and business have a duty of care when it comes to their waste--or from individuals. Those people should then be asked whether they really tried to dispose of that waste responsibly. If a bit more pressure was exerted by the Environment Agency with regard to one or two examples of fly tipping, the problem could be reduced.
Mr. Rowe: An important issue in my area, and many others, is that the fly tipping of disused cars has become a huge burden for local authorities, partly because they are now expected to charge for taking in abandoned cars. People simply make the cars unrecognisable, take them to a nearby field and set fire to them, leaving the farmer with the damage, and a terrible mess. Will the hon. Gentleman say a word about that?
Mr. Bennett: In the long term, the good news is that Europe is coming up with the end-use directive, which will require manufacturers to take cars back. I hope that over time, that will solve the problem. The only difficulty in the interim is that the car breakers have, in a sense, lost heart. Also, cars last longer; we do not have to go to the scrap yard to get replacement items for our cars after a few months. That business is a little rocky, but the long-term solution is the end-use directive. Incidentally, it is good that Europe is considering end-use directives for cars and white goods, but I would love it to issue an end-use directive for chewing gum--but I am moving away from the main issue.
There are problems with abstraction licences. I hope that the legislation on water that the Government propose will come before the House, perhaps in the next Session, and will deal with abstraction licences.
I would like the Environment Agency to take a much stronger role in giving the Government advice. The intention was that the agency would speak up loudly to the Government, but in all the discussions about what should go on at The Hague, about climate change and about the need for putting legislation in place, I have not heard a strong voice coming from the Environment Agency. In a sense, I think that the agency should be pushing harder than the Government, whereas my impression is that the Government are pushing hardest and the Environment Agency is following behind.
The Select Committee was fortunate in that the Environment Agency arranged a visit for its members. It strikes me that it is quite hard for people to take Select
Committee members round and then put up with them asking difficult questions. However, the visit to the Somerset levels and to various sites in Bristol was extremely useful, and we saw some of the flooding on the levels. I suspect that most right hon. and hon. Members will want to put on the record praise for the work that the Environment Agency staff have done during the recent flooding. They have worked extremely hard. On Wednesday, the Select Committee heard evidence on flooding from Jeff Mance of the Environment Agency. He emphasised just how much sleep, and how much opportunity to be with their families, some of his staff had lost. I have great praise for all the staff and the work that they have done.We have to spell out that the flooding is almost certainly a result of climate change. I accept that the climate has been changing continuously over the centuries, but it looks as though human activity is changing the climate more quickly than before. Over the next few years we must think about substantial increases in flood defences. We must weigh up carefully how much it will cost us and the rest of the world to cope with climate change. It might be a much better economic investment to reduce our emissions rather than having to raise sea defences in so many places.
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