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Mr. Bennett: Does the hon. Gentleman accept that the key word is "inappropriate"? In describing the flood plain to the Select Committee, the Minister gave us a map of the Thames, and on that the House of Commons is shown to be on the flood plain. The House of Commons is not necessarily in danger of flooding unless we take away the Thames barrier. So, some places on the flood plain are protected. As long as that protection remains, there is no risk to buildings on it.
Mr. Loughton: I do not disagree with some of the hon. Gentleman's points, but we are not talking about every inch of every flood plain. The word "inappropriate" is right in that context. Patently, the policy has not worked up to now. The advice that the Environment Agency has given has in many cases not been heeded, or, if it has been heeded, it has simply not worked.
I was brought up and went to school in Lewes, so I know it well, but when I visited the town, some parts of it that I saw under water were unrecognisable. I saw some new social housing, built, in the past couple of years, within feet of the River Ouse on a level that is lower than the top of the bank of the Ouse, which is well known for flooding. The houses have little driveways for parking cars that slope down toward the houses from the central road running through the estate, which acts as a neat conduit to bring flood waters straight down into the front rooms of those houses.
Those houses have been built in the past few years, with or without the advice of the Environment Agency ignored or not by the local authority and obviously not overridden on appeal or by the Secretary of State. Can the Minister honestly say that he is happy with the post-1998 improvements? Why has so much Environment Agency advice to planning authorities been ignored? Does it come down to lack of resources, lack of proper management, or lack of support from the Government? Is the agency's role in advising on planning for developments on flood plains to be strengthened, or taken away altogether? Will Environment Agency advice be given far greater weight by the planning inspectorate in appeals? Those are legitimate questions arising from the Select Committee report and from the flooding that has affected so much of our country in recent weeks.
The report has made a useful contribution to the way in which we will police our environment in future. It highlights how the Environment Agency must be given an important role in that effort and the Government must support it if the agency is to be taken seriously. I look
forward to hearing a constructive response from the Minister and an assurance that the many criticisms that have been levelled will be addressed urgently. I hope that if legislation is required to improve matters, he will press forcefully for it. The ball is in the Government's court. I now ask the Minister to respond--[Interruption.]--although it appears that we might have an additional response from my hon. Friend the Member for Chichester (Mr. Tyrie).1.12 pm
The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Mr. Elliot Morley): I welcome the opportunity to debate the report and I am pleased to be here in my capacity as Minister with responsibility for flooding and coastal defence. My presence here demonstrates something that my hon. Friend the Member for Denton and Reddish (Mr. Bennett) will be pleased to see in action: that we as a Government work together; our Departments co-ordinate with each other. The fact that I can speak on behalf of the Department of the Environment, Transport and the Regions on some issues and Ministers at that Department can speak on some issues relating to agriculture demonstrates that we are developing a more joined-up, integrated approach to environmental matters.
I shall try to go through the points made in the debate, especially those made by my hon. Friend, who chairs the Select Committee, which has done an excellent job. I have always been a supporter of Select Committees and I served on one--the Select Committee on Agriculture--after I was first elected in 1987. Select Committees do influence Governments. Much of the report being debated today is good and well argued and it will influence the Government's course of action in future.
I believe that the Environment Agency is developing a clear identity and role. That takes time. The Environment Agency brought together a wide range of different organisations--85 in all--and to weld them together in a single form is quite a job, but I believe that the agency is succeeding. The agency has a new chairman, Sir John Harman and will have a new chief executive, Baroness Young of Old Scone. I was slightly disappointed by the hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham (Mr. Loughton), who levelled mild criticism at those appointments on the grounds of the Labour party connections of the people appointed. I can assure the hon. Gentleman that those two are highly independent individuals. In the Government's dealings with Baroness Young in her former role as chairman of English Nature, we learned that she pulled no punches when defending the interests of the body she represented and furthering the interests of nature conservation. I am sure that that will be a formidable team, who will make sure that the Environment Agency fulfils its role as a Government adviser and carries out its obligations in relation to the environment, waste management and the supervision of emissions.
On waste and supervision, I recognise my hon. Friend's point about risk assessment. That is becoming a more common aspect of regulation. I also appreciated my hon. Friend's comments about tyres and the related problems. The right hon. Member for Suffolk, Coastal (Mr. Gummer) spoke at length about tyres. I have some sympathy with those views, as I have in my constituency a situation similar to that outlined by the right hon. Gentleman.
Someone took over a disused airfield and began to store car tyres there, in breach of planning permission. The local council, the former Glanford borough council, gave retrospective planning permission, which I thought was not a great idea, but by then there was a huge mound of tyres and the situation was getting out of control. The company concerned made all sorts of promises and asked for all sorts of grants to deal with the problem. In the end, it declared itself bankrupt and cleared off, leaving a gigantic mountain of tyres on the airfield, which threatened adjacent villages.
Hon. Members may be interested to know that many of the car tyres from that site have been used by the local council. One of the uses for them is to line landfill sites. I understand that that is also helpful in the collection of methane gas which, in the case of my local authority, is collected and burned in a power station to produce electricity. That seems an environmentally friendly method of dealing with it. Bus and lorry tyres are much more difficult to dispose of, and I know that the agency is working towards a strategy for dealing with tyres, which should be in place by 2002.
I understand the point about naming and shaming. My hon. Friend explained the Committee's thinking, and I believe that there is a role for naming and shaming but, as he rightly said, it must be based on sound criteria. I agree with him about the level of fines. There has been some disappointment about the level of fines for some major pollution incidents, not least the tanker incident that took place off south Wales.
Although that is a matter for the courts, which are independent, it has been made clear to them that we expect environmental pollution offences to be dealt with strictly and with appropriate fines. Many cases involve multinational companies, which can afford to pay fines. The fine must be substantial if it is to be effective. I know that the Departments of Trade and Industry and of the Environment, Transport and the Regions are examining the matter of company regulation and the associated costs.
With regard to waste and local authority links, the agency is developing a strategy for waste management and preparing for the implementation of the landfill directive. By 2002, 90 per cent. of sites will be classified, so progress is being made.
Fly tipping is a major problem for any urban or fringe area. Some of my local farmers and landowners have great difficulty with that. There is no definitive evidence that fly tipping is linked with the landfill tax but, no matter what the reason for it, the Environment Agency has an important role in dealing with it, working with local authorities.
I accept the point about the end-use directive and the way that it will apply to the recycling of cars. The House may be interested in research that MAFF is doing to promote industrial crops. Some fibre crops can be used to make dashboards and interior panels for cars, so in future, in addition to recycling the metal, we may be able to compost other car components. That would certainly be a green way of dealing with them.
My hon. Friends the Members for Normanton (Mr. O'Brien) and for Wimbledon (Mr. Casale) mentioned planning, which is a key issue. Over the years, bad decisions have been made about flood plains. The Environment Agency has produced flood risk maps, which are a great advantage. They were one of the high
level targets that were set after the Bye report. I understand that the flood risk maps that have already been circulated to local authorities will be available on the internet in December. People can thus access them on the internet, identify their exact area and the way in which the flood risk maps apply.Planning policy guidance 25 will be reviewed in the light of the recent floods and the appearance of my hon. Friend the Minister for Housing and Planning before the Select Committee. Some of the comments that were made at that meeting will influence the method of introducing the proposal. The guidance will be sharpened and take note of the recent floods. As my hon. Friend said, we intend to introduce it in January. It will therefore not be greatly delayed, but it is important that it takes the points that I mentioned into account.
The hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham made a point on new development. I caution the Opposition not to get too excited about future development. Of course we acknowledge that it is important. However, it would be a mistake to adopt a predict and provide approach and say, "You can't at any time, under any circumstances, have any sort of development on a flood plain." Such an approach is unnecessary; each application should be judged on merit, and planning policy guidance 25 recommends that. Some developments should be refused because they are inappropriate or should not happen in a specific area; others may be satisfactory. Some may require flood mitigation measures. In those cases, the developers may have to pay for them. That is not unreasonable.
Let me deal with the policy of best and most versatile land, which will be addressed in the rural White Paper. I have already read some press reports about it. The Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food deals with that policy, but it has never been effective. MAFF has requested a public inquiry under its intervention powers only once; that has happened since I have been Parliamentary Secretary. Our objections on grounds of best and most versatile land did not make any difference; the policy does not work. The hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham talked about retaining it. However, that could have the opposite effect to that desired by the hon. Gentleman.
Under current regulations, MAFF can intervene on grade 1 and 2 land if it is up for development. We can hold up the process and request a public inquiry. That could mean that development is directed towards lower-grade agricultural land, which is less appropriate for the purpose. Development on higher-grade agricultural land, which may be better for the purpose, could be delayed. Again, we return to the point about treating issues on their individual merit. Changing the regulations on best and most versatile land will not mean opening up agricultural or greenbelt land to some new form of development.
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