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Mr. Trimble: It was clearly signalled during the debate on the allocation of time motion that this was likely to be the most significant topic for discussion and the most significant group of amendments. As has been suggested in the discussion so far, on the part both of the Government and of the Opposition, this group of amendments essentially deals with Northern Ireland, although a few other matters are covered. In light of that fact, it is remarkable that no representative of the Northern Ireland Office is on the Treasury Bench. The hon. Member for Banff and Buchan (Mr. Salmond) made a similar point when we discussed an earlier group of amendments. I sympathised with his comment then, but it applies in spades to the serious issues covered by these amendments. I venture to suggest that Ministers in the Northern Ireland Office have fled the field because they are well aware of the weakness of the Government's argument. They have passed what is a poor brief on to Home Office Ministers and left them to manage as best they can.
9.15 pm
Members of different Opposition parties referred in our earlier debate to the emollient character of the comments made by the Parliamentary Secretary, Privy Council Office. Perhaps the Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department, the hon. Member for North
Warwickshire (Mr. O'Brien), is hoping that he will get away with imitating his hon. Friend's manner, especially given the structure of his argument: he began with the one aspect of the Government's policy that has substance or ground for defence, but as he gradually moved away from that and got towards the enormity of the final result, he quickly speeded up and dashed to the finishing line in the hope that no one would notice the weakness of the arguments.The one part of the Government's argument with any merit is the problem that the continuing threat of terrorism in Northern Ireland poses for donors who are identified. They might be intimidated or be reluctant to contribute, with the consequence that the political process in Northern Ireland--and certain parties in particular--would suffer. We understand that concern, and the Under-Secretary was right to mention it. In our evidence, my party and others drew attention to that problem, but we proposed a modest solution. We suggested that the identity of the donor should be disclosed only to the commission; it would go no further and would not be published.
We are prepared to trust the commission even though we are aware of the danger of official bodies being penetrated by the agents of terrorist organisations for the purpose of obtaining information that would enable them to threaten people. We are prepared to have a degree of disclosure that would satisfy the public need without exposing people to risk.
Rather than a solution that is proportionate to the reality of the problem, however, we have been given a set of proposals that is wholly disproportionate, which leads me to suspect that there is another reason for the measure. I am pretty certain that the genuine problem of likely intimidation or scaring off of donors has been used as an excuse to do something wholly different--to set in place an exceptional set of arrangements for Northern Ireland simply to advantage Irish nationalists.
Let me observe parenthetically that that is discriminatory. It discriminates between nationalist and non-nationalist parties in Northern Ireland, and between nationalist parties in Northern Ireland and nationalist parties in Wales and Scotland. It was said in our earlier debate that the Scottish National party has prominent and well-known donors who are resident outside the United Kingdom for most of the time. There is a Scottish diaspora, a Welsh diaspora and an Irish diaspora. Why is one treated more favourably than another? There is a serious point there.
It is not that I am arguing for further exemptions to be provided for Welsh and Scottish nationalist parties. I am simply pointing out that the Government's proposal is flawed and unfair and treats people unequally. As the Government's obligations under human rights and related legislation apply throughout the United Kingdom, and as there is an obligation under international law to treat all people within the United Kingdom equally, and as those obligations extend to political participation in elections--
Mr. Trimble: Precisely. In view of those matters, the Government need to think seriously about whether their proposals can be sustained.
What justification has been offered tonight for treating Northern Ireland differently? As has been said, Northern Ireland is being treated in an exceptional manner.
I listened to the Minister and heard two things mentioned--the Ireland Act 1949 and the Belfast agreement of 1998. The Ireland Act is interesting in that it declares that Ireland is not to be treated as a foreign country. That is unusual. The substance of that legislation was that the United Kingdom refused to recognise the independence of the Republic of Ireland. Until then, the Irish free state, as it was then called, was part of Her Majesty's dominions and part of the Commonwealth. In effect, in 1949, the then Labour Government said that they would not recognise that Ireland was different and foreign and that they would treat people from Ireland as if they were British citizens the moment they entered the United Kingdom.One might wonder whether it is appropriate today to continue to say that we do not really regard the Republic of Ireland as a foreign country, particularly in view of the constitutional provisions in the Belfast agreement, in which there is a recognition that there are two states--the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland. From my point of view, one of the good things about the Belfast agreement is the fact that the Republic of Ireland recognises the existence of the United Kingdom and the territorial integrity of the entire United Kingdom. I do not say that one should rush into a precipitate re-examination of all the aspects and ramifications of the Ireland Act, but I do suggest that that is rather shaky ground on which to rely.
I see that desperate efforts have been made to rustle up another Northern Ireland Minister. The Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, the hon. Member for Knowsley, North and Sefton, East (Mr. Howarth), has now staggered through to the Front Bench, but he will have to operate bereft of support from the Northern Ireland Office. No doubt pleas for assistance are proceeding in that direction. My point was that the Ireland Act 1949 is not a particularly good basis for the Home Office to rely on.
The other point on which the Home Office relied was the Belfast agreement. I am at a loss to understand why the Minister believes that there is anything in the Belfast agreement that in any way justifies the treatment of Northern Ireland in this legislation. The Belfast agreement explicitly recognises British sovereignty in Northern Ireland, and that is also recognised by the Republic of Ireland in that agreement. Therefore, there is no clear basis for such treatment.
It is the case that the Neill recommendation was that, in relation to political parties in Northern Ireland, the definition of a permissible source should also include a citizen of the Republic of Ireland resident in the Republic of Ireland, subject to compliance with the Republic's local Act. Neill did suggest that the donations should be extended to the Republic of Ireland but no further. Neill did not recommend foreign donations generally. Because of what Neill saw as a problem, and particular circumstances with regard to the Republic of Ireland--a matter on which I disagree--Neill suggested that the Republic of Ireland could be included among permissible sources of donations. The Minister then went on to demonstrate in his argument that the Neill recommendation was unworkable. That is the substance of what the Minister said. He said that it would be impossible for a political party in the United Kingdom to determine whether a donor in the Republic of Ireland that had sent money to it had complied with the Irish electoral
Act. Furthermore, it would be impossible to tell whether money forwarded by a donor resident in the Republic of Ireland was from the Republic or had been laundered elsewhere. The Minister therefore proved that the Neill recommendation is unworkable.The report made a recommendation which, on closer examination, turns out to be unworkable. The sensible solution would be to drop the recommendation but, having found unworkable a recommendation that was to extend to the Republic of Ireland, the Government have extended it to the whole world. That is wholly incompatible with the spirit of the Neill report. It is wrong of the Government to pray in aid the Neill report, given that they subvert it extensively in their proposals. An attempt was made to dress up as a reasonable argument a wholly unreasonable result. The Government's argument is flawed and thoroughly indefensible.
I accept the views of Members who said that the provision has been introduced simply to benefit Sinn Fein-IRA. Of course it will do that, but in fact it confers more benefit on the Social Democatic and Labour party, which may be why the hon. Member for Hull, North (Mr. McNamara) was so anxious to defend the SDLP in that context.
Mr. McNamara: And on every issue.
Mr. Trimble: I am interested to see a Labour Member crawl out and say that his object is to defend the SDLP in every context.
Mr. McNamara: Given the SDLP's support for constitutional measures and its derision for people who indulge in violent acts to advance their policies, and given that its members are concerned with social democracy, I would be prepared on any front, on any occasion, to defend the SDLP and other parties that are prepared to do the same thing.
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