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Mr. Lembit Öpik (Montgomeryshire): The Minister said that it is a slightly unsatisfactory and difficult situation. What is satisfactory is that there are Members in their places who are genuinely willing to listen to the arguments, and, I hope, willing to change their position on the basis of strong arguments. I have such arguments and I am sure that the official Opposition will not feel obliged to oppose what the Government are doing, although what they are proposing is somewhat risky.
The tricky thing about Northern Ireland is that a different sort of politics is involved. The right hon. Member for Bracknell (Mr. MacKay), who is sadly not in his place, said, "Wherever possible, Northern Ireland should be treated as part of the United Kingdom." I think that I quote him quite closely. That is absolutely right. I completely agree. I think that no one in the Chamber
would feel otherwise. He also said that he always needs to be persuaded when there is to be a variation from the United Kingdom law. Again, I do not think that anyone in the Chamber would question that.Furthermore, the right hon. Gentleman cited an example salient to the debate where, in his judgment, an exemption was valid, and that was disclosure. We have had an extensive debate about that, and it seems that no one would question the importance of protecting individuals who choose to make financial contributions to political organisations in Northern Ireland, given the specific and particular threats that they might or would experience were their identities to be revealed. That was a clear and current example of an exemption from how things are done in the rest of the United Kingdom.
As I understood it, the right hon. Member for Bracknell drew a distinction between that and the international funding of parties. Although there is no difference in principle over the aspiration to have commonality in political treatment across the United Kingdom, a difference arises when it comes to judgment. In my view there is a justifiable position on pragmatic grounds that international funding should not now be banned or prevented in Northern Irish politics.
I stress that we are not talking about an exemption for Sinn Fein. That point has almost been ignored. It may work out in practice that Sinn Fein and perhaps the Social Democratic and Labour party benefit, but any political party in Northern Ireland can benefit from the exemption. It is not a pedantic point because we must recognise that in practical terms Sinn Fein, and perhaps the SDLP, have managed to secure international funding. That happens to be the reality, but there is nothing to stop any other political party in Northern Ireland from doing the same.
Having agreed that the strategic intent of what the right hon. Members for Bracknell and for Upper Bann (Mr. Trimble) have said is in alignment with the great majority of Members in the Chamber, we need to consider why there may be justification for one area to be handled differently in terms of international funding.
The analysis is different because there is a degree of emotive language, which is difficult to justify when challenged. When the hon. Member for Hull, North (Mr. McNamara) challenged the right hon. Member for Bracknell about what he meant by dirty money, it was my perception that there was not a clear response and that there was some shifting of position. There are people in the United States and elsewhere who probably fund organisations that I would not, who do so in the sincere belief that they are supporting the peace process or a certain political aspiration.
It is unhelpful and irrelevant if we describe that funding as dirty money. We already have a mechanism to manage the concept of dirty money. It is called the rule of law, the courts, the police and international legal co-operation. The purpose is to try to hunt out the money that is being gleaned from drug-running and extortion, for example. It is not an absolutely effective technique in the sense that there is dirty money--we all accept that paramilitary organisations on both sides in Northern Ireland have benefited from organised crime. However, that is different from saying that every penny of international money that goes into the Northern Irish political environment is acquired through ill-gotten gains. I believe that a number
of parties in Northern Ireland have benefited from money that has been donated--sincerely--to Northern Irish political organisations.Leaving aside the obvious connections between the north and the south of Ireland, I maintain that the right hon. Member for Upper Bann was right to point out that nationalist and republican organisations have benefited more from international funding than have unionists and loyalists. However, my second point on this subject is that the political and financial environment would not be distorted by the Bill, which would simply maintain the status quo. That status quo might not be desirable in the long run but it has existed for some time.
My third point has to do with the nature of the funding. The right hon. Member for Upper Bann rightly described the present situation as an imbalance. Although he did not say so in so many words, his implication was that the system favours nationalist and republican political groups.
However, I do not believe that the Bill presents additional obstacles that would make it harder for Northern Ireland to matriculate in the rest of the British political system. Conversely, I believe that it represents the beginning of convergence in an important area: at long last, we are enshrining in law an acceptance that things are different when it comes to political funding in Northern Ireland, compared with the rest of the UK. The crucial point is that we are imposing a time scale during which the situation must be normalised.
It is worth recalling that the Government initially intended to establish a 10-year review period. I hope that Liberal Democrat Members were to some extent influential in reducing that review period to four years. That means that there is a maximum of four years in which the question of international political funding for parties in Northern Ireland must be normalised.
In four years, if the Government want to renew the exemption, they must come to the House and justify that decision, given that allowing it to fall would normalise the situation in Northern Ireland with regard to the rest of the UK. That is a crucial point, as the default position is normalisation and convergence--not the indefinite maintenance of differentiation with regard to the rest of the UK.
Mr. Walter: Will the hon. Gentleman enlighten the House regarding his conversion on the road to Damascus? On Third Reading in March, he and his party leader voted with Conservative Members against the proposals. Has the Liberal Democrat party fundamentally changed its policy on this matter?
10 pm
Mr. Öpik: I take it that the hon. Gentleman is referring to the Bill's Report stage, rather than Third Reading. What has changed is that the Government have moved on this matter. We have caused them to move from a 10-year review period to one of four years--in other words, we have reduced by six years the period during which convergence should be achieved. Those hon. Members whom I can hear praising the Liberal Democrats for securing that reduction--and they include the hon. Member for Banff and Buchan (Mr. Salmond), whom I thank--are right to do so.
Mr. McNamara: I, too, congratulate the Liberal Democrats on that achievement. After the great fury that
Conservative Members displayed on this matter, no Conservative Back-Bench Member is present to support the three hon. Members on the Opposition Front Bench. I leave it for the House to decide whether it was secured through boredom or the power of their arguments, but I congratulate the Liberal Democrats on what they have managed to achieve.
Mr. Öpik: No doubt Conservative Back-Bench Members are busy putting out press releases to thank the Liberal Democrats, just as the Scottish National party has done.
Mr. Grieve: The hon. Member for Hazel Grove (Mr. Stunell) spoke on Report on 14 March, and set out eloquently why his party took the view that the Conservative party now takes. He said:
- I do not want terrorists parties on either side of the argument in Northern Ireland to flourish, but I recognise that a significant amount of funding of some of those parties, on both sides of the divide, comes not from foreign sources but from rampant protection rackets in the Province. There are other sources of money flowing into the political body.
Mr. Öpik: I may be a simple country boy with Estonian parents, but for the second time in seven days I find myself giving official Opposition Front-Bench Members a brief lesson on the politics of third alternatives and evolving a position. The difference between the official Opposition and the Liberal Democrats is that sometimes we try to negotiate for a better resolution than the one brought before the House.
Mr. Grieve: Will the hon. Gentleman give way?
Mr. Öpik: I am on a bit of a roll, and I do not want to be interrupted. If the hon. Gentleman will bear with me for 30 seconds, I will give way to him then.
I recognise that that is a difficult concept for such a confrontational party as the official Opposition to acknowledge. I am here to do whatever is best for Northern Ireland. Sometimes that means developing one's position if, in our judgment, it is in the greater interest of peace in Northern Ireland and, more to the point, it helps it to normalise Northern Ireland with the rest of the United Kingdom, according to a time scale. History will show whether we are right or wrong. I do not need to hide that fact, because I have made the point before.
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