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2.15 pm
Mr. John M. Taylor: Is not the claim to urgency the most bogus claim of all? We have had since 1949 to put the matter right, if we had wanted to.
Mr. Howarth: My hon. Friend makes a telling point and is entirely right--we could have acted earlier.
There was a great discrepancy between the Minister saying that the Bill was not urgent and the business managers pressing it through two days on the trot. The Government's actions were at variance with the Minister's assurances, and assurances about the origins and purposes of the Bill were at variance with what we were beginning to understand about it. We were pleased that we pressed the Government through the night because eventually, at about 2.40 am, the Minister told us what the Bill was about. He said:
- I dealt with the question of whom we discussed the matter with on Second Reading, but let me make it clear that representations have been received from, and discussions held with, the leader of the Ulster Unionist party and the Irish Government. I understand that representations have been received by the Government from Sinn Fein. However, let me make it clear that the Government are not trading on issues. As always, representations are judged on their merits, and I believe that the measures in the Bill are justified on their own merits. The hon. Member for Fermanagh and South Tyrone will be aware also of the issue in relation to clause 2 and the right hon. Member for Upper Bann (Mr. Trimble).
In the early hours of the morning--one good reason why we should not suspend our proceedings at 10 o'clock--we finally extracted an admission from the Minister, who I believe is an honourable man, that representations had been received from Sinn Fein, although the measure is not part of the Belfast agreement. His admission led us to the justifiable conclusion that there was more to the Bill than simply trying to create a more formal institutional relationship between this Parliament and the Parliament of the Irish Republic. Indeed, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Bracknell (Mr. MacKay) said, we began to believe that the Bill was a further appeasement of the men of violence.
The Bill is not on its own: it is part of a raft of measures, one of which--on the financing of political parties--was debated yesterday. The hon. Member for Banff and Buchan (Mr. Salmond) made a powerful point when he said that the Scottish National party will be committing a criminal offence if it raises money from expatriate Scots to fund its campaigns in Scotland, but that Sinn Fein will not be committing a criminal offence if it raises money for its party political purposes from Noraid and the United States. Special treatment will be given to Sinn Fein and, indeed, to other parties in Northern Ireland.
Mr. George Howarth: I suspect that you may rule me out of order, Mr. Deputy Speaker, but the exclusion in the
Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Bill for parties in Northern Ireland is not at the request of Sinn Fein. It arose from discussions that we had with all political parties in Northern Ireland.
Mr. Gerald Howarth: I am grateful to the Minister for providing the House with that information. He made that point yesterday, and the right hon. Member for Upper Bann (Mr. Trimble) disputed it. I understand that the Minister had discussions with other members of his party, who said that they would not make the issue one on which they would oppose.
Nevertheless, the principal beneficiaries are unlikely to be ex-patriot Unionists. Given funding as it is generally understood in this country and the massive fundraising operations in the United States, the real beneficiary is much more likely to be Sinn Fein. I make the point only in passing in order to make my overall point about the Bill. It is one of a number of measures that form a clear pattern of advantage to those who were men of violence and to their political supporters.
As the Member of Parliament for Aldershot, formerly the home of the Parachute Regiment, I am bound to say that my constituents are in trepidation of being called before the wretched Saville inquiry in Londonderry to answer for what happened nearly 30 years ago. That inquiry was set up entirely at the behest of the Prime Minister for one purpose only: to appease republican sentiment. We therefore begin to see this Bill not as a nice, warm and cuddly measure to forge closer links between the Irish Parliament and the United Kingdom Parliament, but as part of a raft of measures and actions that add up to give Unionists cause for anxiety and republicans cause for celebration.
Dr. Godman: The hon. Gentleman talks about "that wretched inquiry". May I point out that many of us believe that its object is to get to the truth of what happened on that terrible day?
Mr. Gerald Howarth: I do not disbelieve the hon. Gentleman in his desire. Nor do I disbelieve the families of those who died in their desire, as they see it, to get to the truth. I merely say to the hon. Gentleman that from that inquiry can come no winners whatever. There will be no victors; there will merely be grief, the opening up of old and deep wounds and a postponement of reconciliation. It is scandalous that so much British public money is being expended on an inquiry that has held itself in a thoroughly biased--and I would say disreputable--fashion.
The inquiry refused the repeated requests of my constituents--men who had served their country and put their lives on the line and who are now civilians and have no protection--to claim anonymity when giving evidence. They do not have their network of paramilitaries and others to support them. I do not want to labour the point or drift away from the subject of the Bill; I was responding to the hon. Gentleman and making it clear that I do not doubt his sincerity on the issue. However, I am bound to put on record my reservations, and the fact that I see all these matters forming a pattern.
The hon. Member for East Londonderry mentioned reciprocity. It was also dealt with in Committee, and what
was said was interesting. In answer to a point made by my right hon. Friend the Member for Bromley and Chislehurst, the Minister said:
- We ban Members of the Irish Parliament from being Members of this House. There is no provision in Irish law similar to section 1(1)(e) of the House of Commons Disqualifications Act 1975. Members of the House of Commons and the House of Lords--and, indeed, Members of the legislatures of other countries--are not disqualified on that account from membership of the Irish Parliament. To that extent, the reciprocity sought by the amendment already exists. Members of the Irish Parliament are, however, required to be Irish nationals.--[Official Report, 25 January 2000; Vol. 343, c. 199-225, 305-09.]
The hon. Gentleman also referred to conflict of interest. Again, it is perfectly clear that one cannot on the one hand swear allegiance to the United Kingdom Crown and advance the causes and interests of this country, while at the same time being a Member of a Parliament of another sovereign country, advancing its causes and interests. There will be cases of clear conflict of interest. They are two different countries.
Mr. Öpik: I ask the hon. Gentleman the question that I have already asked: is it his party's policy to repeal the ruling that allows members of other state legislatures in the Commonwealth to stand for this House?
Mr. Howarth: That is a different matter altogether. As the hon. Gentleman will observe, I am not on the Front Bench. I am a bit more of a free agent. However, I understand that, had I been on the Front Bench, I would have been able to answer in the affirmative. I hope that that helps him. The ability of members of legislatures on the African continent or, indeed, of Australia and New Zealand, to be Members of this House at the same time appears to be an anachronism--but that is another issue.
As I said earlier, the Minister said that this was a modest Bill. I disagree fundamentally; it is not a modest Bill. It reinforces the justifiable fears of Unionists. Even if it is not specifically a squalid act of appeasement of Sinn Fein, its effect is to confer a unique, unreciprocated benefit on those who resent the Union between Ulster and Great Britain and refuse to swear allegiance to the Crown, who may even have personally been involved in taking the lives of those who served the Crown in Her Majesty's forces.
I see in the ten-minute Bill of the hon. Member for Hull, North (Mr. McNamara), to which he spoke on 14 November and which I successfully opposed, part of the pattern. Once the oath of allegiance is removed, it is much easier for people who do not owe allegiance to this country to sit as cuckoos in the nest in this Parliament but serve another country and its interests.
Mr. Corbyn: The endearing quality of the hon. Members for East Londonderry (Mr. Ross) and for Aldershot (Mr. Howarth) is their obsession with a byzantine world of conspiracy theories. They imagine that the world is some massive conspiracy designed to achieve I am not sure what.
Both hon. Members today completely lacked any vision of the future that they want for Northern Ireland. They did not at any stage say that they endorse the peace process. Neither said that he endorsed the Good Friday agreement, and neither paid any compliment for three years of ceasefire, the Northern Ireland Act 1998 or the setting up of a devolved Assembly--or for the fact that there is no longer the same level of death, mayhem and destruction in Northern Ireland. I accept that all is not perfect, but there must be some idea of where we go from here. The hon. Gentlemen's proposal appears to be to stick their head in the sand, put the clock back and ignore the massive political steps that Unionists, republicans and nationalist movements in Northern Ireland have taken, and to return to what--another 20 years of 20,000 British troops in Northern Ireland and prisons such as the Maze? That is the alternative. If the hon. Member for Aldershot is serious about getting peace in Northern Ireland, he should look at the achievements of the Good Friday agreement and the enormous political moves of leaders of both communities in Northern Ireland to endorse that process.
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