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Mr. Prescott: Obviously that debate will take place, and I cannot go through all the points that my right hon. Friend has mentioned, but he is quite wrong about Manchester. I introduced the innovative financing for the Manchester airports. They borrow against the assets in a domestic market, as geared to Treasury rules. I persuaded my right hon. Friend the Chancellor to change the Treasury rules. NATS operates under international agreements under which borrowing, financing and charges are agreed internationally. There is not the same freedom. Borrowing in respect of Manchester airport will not count against public sector borrowing; it will simply become private money, not public money. He is not comparing like with like.
Dr. Strang: I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for that intervention. He will be aware that his officials have negotiated at Eurocontrol a change in the arrangements in order to facilitate privatisation. [Interruption.] In relation to that point, if the argument is about how we define the PSBR, I defer to the hon. Member for Bath. I am not defending the Chancellor's definition of the PSBR, but under the Maastricht treaty, what I am describing does not come within the PSBR.
Mr. Don Foster: Has the right hon. Gentleman noticed another part of the Queen's Speech dealing with the Government's accounting Bill? The Gracious Speech specifically states that the Bill will
- "generate more investment in public infrastructure and front line services."
-
The Bill to introduce resource accounting will change the definition of the PSBR and make it much easier to use public money directly to invest in organisations such as NATS and to avoid the problem that we are both trying to resolve.
Since the announcement of the complex privatisation scheme on the day that the House rose before the summer recess, the Government have still not persuaded the airline pilots--who are the key people--or the controllers. Let us not forget also that there is tremendous opposition from the general aviation community. That is not the big airlines, but the business people who fly smaller planes. It is particularly important that they should be encouraged to clock on with NATS in our controlled air space.
In conclusion, I shall concentrate on the security issues. There are two aspects--first, the threat of global terrorism. We live in the global village and must recognise that such a threat exists. I do not want to be melodramatic, but if intelligence information is received about a bomb on an incoming plane, we need to be able to seize control of the country's air traffic control system. If that is a privatised monopoly operating under price controls, there is much less incentive for it to co-operate with the Government than if it were in the public sector.
The second security issue, which transcends all other issues, as many hon. Members will appreciate, is our national security in relation to hostile military aircraft. We hope that we are moving into a century when hostile military aircraft will not try to enter our controlled airspace, but the lesson of the century that we are just leaving is that we should not bank on that. Periods of tension may still occur, and I hope that no one will defend the proposed privatisation with the argument that the air traffic control system could be taken back into Government ownership in wartime during a period of serious international tension, or during the build-up of hostilities, or even when war broke out.
For reasons of national security, other countries, including the United States, have not privatised their air traffic control systems.
Mr. Jenkin:
I am listening carefully to the right hon. Gentleman. He said earlier that the Bill would separate the operation of air traffic control from safety considerations, and that that met with the approval of Eurocontrol. Do his concerns about security following privatisation also apply to the plans to allow Eurocontrol to take control of air traffic operations in the United
Dr. Strang:
I am not saying that at all. There is no question but that greater co-operation is needed at European level. I am referring to military issues, not the way in which we organise the arrangements and the provision of air traffic management services in the European Union and beyond.
One of our most important achievements when we held the presidency of the EU Transport Council was to secure agreement for the establishment of a European aviation safety authority, about which the Select Committee might have been a little more positive in its report. That goes beyond the European Union and beyond air traffic management and control. It covers some of the east European countries, where it is extremely important to raise standards of aviation safety.
As the hon. Member for North Essex (Mr. Jenkin) mentioned European issues, I should point out that no country in the European Union has a privatised air traffic control system or is proposing to privatise its existing system. I do not understand a Minister saying that we propose to privatise our air traffic control system in order to facilitate greater co-operation in Europe in relation to Eurocontrol.
Miss Anne McIntosh (Vale of York):
I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for allowing me to intervene. Does he agree that Britain has been a flagship in respect of aviation? Other member states were slow to privatise their flag carriers. The previous Conservative Government privatised British Airways very successfully. Other member states have also been slow to privatise their airports. Again, we acted as a flagship in that regard. British Airports Authority has set high standards, which are admired throughout the European Union. Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that as other European states have been slow to privatise other aspects of air transport, they will probably look to us to give a lead in the privatisation of air traffic services?
Dr. Strang:
I thoroughly reject that argument which should apply to the United States. I defer to the hon. Lady's experience in relation to Europe and the European Parliament, but I do not believe that we would be giving a lead by privatising air traffic control, and that that would result in some big multinational company taking over air traffic control in European airspace. That is not realistic. Can we expect the French to allow some foreign-based company to take over control of their airspace?
One of our great strengths is the way in which we integrate our military airspace with our civil airspace. That is facilitated by their being in the public sector. At West Drayton and at Prestwick, one can see how the military controllers operate with the civil controllers. I am glad that the hon. Lady made her point.
In an interesting speech, Sir Malcolm Field, the chairman of the Civil Aviation Authority, dealt with the argument that the privatisation of air traffic control was somehow like privatising an airline. The difference is fundamental. When an airline is privatised, it can make
more private profit, as a privatised company naturally wants to do. It can do so by building its business, expanding its share of the market, providing more frequent services, improving the meals that it serves and so on. There are many means by which a privatised airline can increase its private profits.
That does not apply in the same way to air traffic control. All that the controllers do is keep planes apart. They ensure that they enter and leave our airspace and airports without any incidents. This country has a tremendous record in that regard. Therefore, I appeal to the Government not to rush into this complex privatisation scheme, particularly when NATS is moving into an important phase. It is scheduled to bring Swanwick into operation in 2002 and it must also bring the new Scottish centre into operation.
Mr. Christopher Gill (Ludlow):
I congratulate the hon. Member for Hamilton, South (Mr. Tynan) on his maiden speech. I hope that he will find his membership of the House satisfying and fulfilling, as indeed I am sure he will.
I shall confine my remarks to three aspects of the Queen's Speech, particularly in so far as they impact upon my constituents. I shall talk about education, health and the countryside.
The Queen's Speech stated:
The front-page headline on last Thursday's edition of the Shropshire Star was "Teaching on a shoestring". On Friday, its headline referred to health authority funding in Shropshire and stated, "Missing Out on Millions". I should point out that I have no influence over what the Shropshire Star prints, but, on Saturday, the headline was "Health chiefs warn of extra cash need".
On every important front, Shropshire is being shortchanged. For example, on education, the London borough of Southwark receives a 50 per cent. higher standard spending assessment for every pupil than Shropshire. So that there is no confusion, I shall provide the figures. For every primary school pupil, Shropshire receives £2,220 while Southwark receives more than 50 per cent. more--the SSA for a primary school child there is £3,396. A child at a secondary school in Shropshire has an SSA of £2,837, while in Southwark the figure is more than 50 per cent. higher at £4,377.
As if those figures were not bad enough, per capita health spending in Shropshire is £552 against per capita expenditure in Birmingham of £714, and £613 and£596 respectively in the neighbouring counties of Staffordshire and Herefordshire. That is from a
Government who boast about making health and education their priority. Try telling that to the people whom I represent in Shropshire.
What will the Secretary of State for Education and Employment do about his reported comments in the Shropshire Star? When he visited Shropshire last week, the headline was "Education is the key says visitor Blunkett". Following his visit, the newspaper reported that
When will the Secretary of State for Health start to fund Shropshire up to the level of other health authorities, instead of closing the excellent new facilities at Kidderminster hospital, which the previous Conservative Government provided at a cost of £25 million and on which thousands of my constituents depend? I draw attention to the fact that the Queen's Speech says that the Government are committed to providing
Those statements do not apply to the Kidderminster hospital, where the accident and emergency facility is being phased out and will be closed down. Far from my constituents having greater convenience in the health provision that is made for them, they will have to journey a further 17 miles to a new hospital that is being built in Worcester. In short, I ask Ministers when this duplicitous Government will put real money where their mouth is. When will they make a reality of their much-vaunted rhetoric?
"Education remains my Government's number one priority."
On health, it stated:
"My Government's ten year programme of modernisation for health and social care will provide faster, more convenient services to help improve the country's health."
That is the Government's rhetoric, but the reality, as perceived from Shropshire, is somewhat different.
"he accepted that the system of dishing out cash to education chiefs was unfair and Shropshire was missing out."
The newspaper then quotes him as saying:
"I appreciate the way people in Shropshire feel about it . . . The difference is staggering."
The difference is staggering, so I repeat my question: what will the Secretary of State do about the wholly unsatisfactory situation that affects the education of young people in my constituency?
"more convenient services to help improve the country's health."
The Prime Minister went on record saying that the Government would spend money on improving every accident and emergency unit in the country.
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