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Mr. Steve Webb (Northavon): The hon. Lady's comments on the Child Support Agency were measured and considered, but the agency's history shows that the original formula used was insufficiently tailored to people's circumstances, and it created rough justice. The formula was made more sophisticated to deal with that problem. Is she concerned that an even simpler formula will result in further rough justice and will create the same problems as in the past?
Gillian Merron: I shall return to the CSA and deal with the hon. Gentleman's points.
On Saturday, I met members of the Lincolnshire Society of Architects and asked them how they felt about business and the economy. They told me of a sense of confidence among members and their customers. They felt that there was a stability in the economy that they had not seen for some time, and that it allowed them to plan and to prosper. The strength of the economy enables us to provide strength for social change. The Queen's Speech lays further foundations for the country to build on, with proposals such as making it easier to vote and allowing government to be more open to the public to participate and scrutinise.
The House has ahead of it a balanced and radical programme of work. As my right hon. Friend said, seven of the 28 Bills announced are the responsibility of the Department of Trade and Industry. I believe that that will give a further boost to the economy and will fuel opportunities for fairness and better public provision, such as 16-plus education and proper support for children leaving care.
Since the previous Queen's Speech, the new deal has been extended to lone parents. I recently joined the Employment Service in Lincoln to celebrate the fact that, in the first year, more than 190 single parents had found either work or training as a result of the new deal. One of those single parents was Karen, who had been four years on her own and out of work. Like me, she pays a tremendous tribute to the new deal, because she now has a qualification to be proud of and a job that gives her and her family the income, dignity and status that she could not have got without the new deal. That is what Government policy should be about, and the Queen's Speech offers more such opportunities. There is something for everyone.
Mr. Tony McWalter (Hemel Hempstead):
It is right to pay a strong tribute to the new deal because of the enormous change it has made to many people's lives, but does my hon. Friend agree with me that the system contains some anomalies? People who need training at NVQ levels 3, 4 and 5 are often prevented from gaining it, be they single parents or others. Some people require analysis of their needs. People with profound dyslexia, for example, may find that financial difficulties represent a
Gillian Merron:
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. That is why I am pleased that Lincolnshire is a pilot area for gateway plus, which will provide greater support to those who suffer particular disadvantages.
I am sure that all right hon. and hon. Members have tales to tell of the difficulties that occur when relationships break down and problems are encountered in dealing with the Child Support Agency. Its beleaguered staff battle on with an impossible system. Last week I assisted a constituent who has three children. Her husband left her at the end of July and she has still received no money. The following day I spoke to another woman who told me that it had taken eight months to issue forms to the father of her children who had left her. That is not how the CSA should work. Delays and errors in assessment mean that substantial arrears accrue. That is bad for everyone involved--not only for the children, but for the parent with financial responsibility. Clearly, financial wrangling gets in the way of giving children the love and care that they deserve, particularly during difficult times.
My constituents will welcome the Bill for its clarity and fairness. It will provide a simple, consistent system of percentage rates. People will know exactly where they stand, so they will be able to make plans knowing exactly what is due to them.
The new system will also take account of those supporting children in second families, a difficulty that is often raised by my constituents. Those with second families often feel that the children in their second family may be disadvantaged because they have to support the children in their first family. That cannot be right. The interests of children, in whichever family, must be paramount.
The new system of working out maintenance will also take account of parents who are lower paid. There is sufficient flexibility to allow for people's individual circumstances while improving the clarity of the system.
Another important factor is that the Bill will provide more money to children in the poorest families who currently receive little if any benefit. I am delighted that those on benefit will be able to keep the first £10 of child support. Similarly, the calculation of the working families tax credit will take no account of child maintenance payments. Those are direct, practical measures to help the very poorest families.
Finally, on enforcement, there will be a crackdown on those who try to dodge their responsibilities. I am sure that other hon. Members also hear from mothers and fathers who feel that the issue must be treated seriously. That is reflected in the establishment of a criminal offence of withholding information. It will give some security to those who believe that their ex-partners are not telling the whole story--another constant cry. The creation of a criminal offence will give a clear sign to those who are less than forthcoming about their circumstances that this will no longer be tolerated. That, in addition to the penalties for late payment, will give teeth to a system that will be fairer and more effective.
We have a continuing problem in the meantime, however. Although there have already been improvements to the CSA and the service it provides through greater
investment in computers, increased use of the phone and a better system, will my right hon. Friend let my constituents know of any immediate changes as we wait for the Bill to pass through the House and to take effect? As I am sure he is aware, poor communication with the CSA is a constant complaint from and bugbear for my constituents.
Sir Norman Fowler (Sutton Coldfield):
There have been two very good pieces of news this week, neither of which were in the Queen's Speech or the collective policy of the Government. We all know the first piece of good news and we congratulate the Prime Minister and his wife. Perhaps I am in the best position to express the hope that soon we will enable the Prime Minister to spend even more time with his expanding family.
The second piece of news, which is more directly relevant to the debate although it has nothing to do with the Secretary of State for Trade and Industry, is the appointment, which I am sure the whole House will welcome, of Digby Jones, the new director general of the Confederation of British Industry. Digby is west midlands through and through and has been a major figure in Birmingham for many years. Our hope in the west midlands is that the voice of the region will now be heard even more clearly. We are still smarting from having won the competition for the millennium exhibition, but seeing the judges keep to their original prejudice and send the dome to Greenwich.
In the west midlands generally, the services industry is significant, as it is everywhere, but manufacturing continues to be of great importance to the region. Another concern that was touched on in yesterday's debate is transport policy and its impact on business and cities. The case of the CBI and many others is that transport investment in the west midlands has fallen woefully behind that in London, for example. To impose restrictions on motorists without improving public transport would be wrong, and the workplace parking levy would simply add to business costs. It would be a business tax which would not deter people from using their cars. The transport agenda is becoming a business and industry interest throughout the country.
I deal now with two further issues, both concerning industry, and shall return to social security when the Secretary of State introduces the legislation. The first issue is training. The Secretary of State for Trade and Industry rightly emphasised the need to invest in training--knowledge, skills and learning. I agree entirely with those sentiments. Slowly and painfully, training has moved up the industrial agenda over the past 20 years. We increasingly recognise the importance of not just initial training, but training throughout life. By that I mean that the days when people started working for a company at the age of 18, 19 or 20 and remained there until they were 65 when they drew their company pension are over. Increasingly, people have to be much more flexible, a point made by the Secretary of State.
Training is of the essence--not institutional training but training connected to the workplace. Industry and business must have substantial ownership. Of course they are not the only ones involved, but they, rather than the Government or local government, must respond to changes in the marketplace. They know what their needs are, so in respect of training they must be in the driving seat.
That is why, in the late 1980s--when I was Secretary of State for Employment--we set up the training and enterprise councils. There was no doubt that the old Manpower Services Commission had run into the sand. It was failing, and even those who previously supported it could find little to say in its favour. With the TECs, we sought to involve leading local businessmen, and union and other local leaders. Whatever criticisms might be made of the TECs, we were outstandingly successful in that respect. We brought together the kind of boards that many plcs would give their eye teeth for.
Leading businessmen and company heads were freely giving their services to training in their area in an unprecedented way. A great many people have put great effort into developing training, and I regret the Government's intention to abolish TECs, which is a retrograde step for a number of reasons.
First, we had the involvement of industry, perhaps for the first time, and that is crucial to the development of training. In the past, training has been imposed on industry, and industry has not been involved properly.
Secondly, we need stability in our training structures. It is no wonder that Germany, for example, is way ahead of us in training. Not only did it start early, but it has kept to the same model for the post-war years, and arguably before that. If we continue to chop and change our structures, enormous damage will be done to this country.
If I have a criticism of the Government--actually, I have many--it is that, in several respects, they have changed schemes which have been working well because they could not bring themselves to embrace the work of the previous Government. Personal equity plans, for example, were replaced by the ever-more complex individual savings accounts. I do not believe that anybody thinks that that was a step forward.
Thirdly, TECs were important because they represented devolution from Government to industry and business. Doubtless improvements could be made, and doubtless criticisms could have been made during the early years of TECs, but those criticisms could have been answered. However, devolution was vastly important, and my fear is that we will return to a centralised system in which Government, in the shape of the Department for Education and Employment, pulls the strings.
I do not believe that the Department of Employment should have gone to the Department of Education in the first place--if it had to go anywhere, it should have been to the Department of Trade and Industry, which would have been much better. However, the idea that we now return to a system where training is centrally imposed and laid on business is a thoroughly retrograde step. If that happens, all the fine words of the Government will not prevent a failure of training, which would be a vast tragedy.
My main point concerns the Government's proposals for the Post Office. The Secretary of State said very little about this, apart from referring us to the White Paper, the
logical conclusion of which seems to be that the Post Office will move from the public to the private sector. It is as if, by accident, the departmental word processors were still printing the words of my right hon. Friend the Member for Henley (Mr. Heseltine).
There is much talk of
The trouble is that this third way risks satisfying no one. The fact is that the Post Office will be owned by the Government and will be subject to the kind of controls set out in the White Paper. That means, bluntly, that the Post Office will be subject not only to a regulator, but to the interference of Ministers and civil servants. One must make the point--I do not do so critically--that some of them have never run a business in their life.
Those concerned will have to take crucial commercial decisions on what
That is a recipe for delay and commercial failure, which I do not believe any of us wants. Government ownership raises the question of who will pick up the bill if an investment with "no undue risk" goes wrong. I see that the Post Office has invested in a German express parcels company. I hope that that is a good investment, but I am bound to say that parcels have not always been the most surefire financial winner in the past.
I remember the 1970s when National Carriers, the parcels business of the old National Freight Corporation, was losing £25 million on a £25 million turnover--some record. I remember that the same company, when still nationalised, went into France, with the probable support of the Government, and came out with heavy losses which led to the closure of the French business.
"greater liberalisation of traditional monopolies . . . opening up European and world domestic markets . . . globalisation of postal services and consolidation amongst key players."
The message seems to be one of commercial freedom, opportunity and meeting the demands of the internet age. But suddenly, the language changes, and the Treasury intervenes. The word now is:
"for investments of £75 million or less there will be timely notification with borrowing limited to a maximum of £75 million in each of the next five years. For investments over £75 million (or where the satisfactory return from a smaller investment is dependent on further linked investment) the approval of ministers will be required. The Government will approve Post Office requests for borrowing for investment cases which are consistent with the strategic plan, commercially robust and pose no undue risk to the taxpayer."
We are left with a curious hybrid animal, neither one thing nor the other. It is the industrial equivalent of the House of Lords. The Post Office is to be owned by the Government, but it will not be a nationalised industry. It is to be allowed more commercial freedom, but it is not to be transferred to the private sector. In the language of this Administration, it represents the third way.
"no undue risk to the taxpayer"
means. Difficult decisions will go not only to the board of the Post Office, but to civil servants and Ministers. If the decisions are important, they will have to go to a Cabinet Committee. If they are really important, they will have to go to the Cabinet. Not many businesses have to deal with all those hurdles before they get permission to move forward.
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