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Mr. Mandelson: I am very interested in the hon. Gentleman's last comment. Undoubtedly, the hon. Member for Belfast, East--a leading member of the DUP--will satisfactorily explain to his constituents and others why he thinks that decommissioning is not important any more, and why he attaches so little value to it. It is something for him to explain, rather than for me to comment on.
The hon. Member for Fermanagh and South Tyrone (Mr. Maginnis) was also right to draw attention to the fact that members of that party are prepared to receive the gain of what he and his colleagues in the Ulster Unionist party have negotiated without going through all the pain of that negotiation. I only assure him that, of course, when and
after we reach D-day, we shall certainly not be losing any interest at all. Support for what is going on, and what has been achieved, is full and will continue to be so.
I hope that, in the days leading up to Saturday's Ulster Unionist council, the hon. Member for Fermanagh and South Tyrone will make it very clear to his hon. Friends and colleagues and to members of his party that, unless we get the go-ahead and the vote that we want on Saturday, we shall not be seeing the end of the Anglo-Irish agreement made in 1985, and we shall not be seeing removal of articles 2 and 3 of the Irish constitution. So if for no other reason than those two great steps forward--there are other reasons--I hope that the council votes yes on Saturday.
Mr. Martin Salter (Reading, West):
We await the prospect of DUP Ministers with bated breath. I should have thought that one of the first things they could do is to return some of the paving stones in their constituencies to their natural state.
On a more serious point, we all applaud the efforts of the genuine pro-agreement parties in pushing forward the peace progress so that we are on the threshold of implementing the Good Friday agreement in full. However, how confident is my right hon. Friend that some of the smaller loyalist paramilitary groups and splinter groups are genuine about the process of decommissioning, particularly in the light of the appalling gangsterism that still exists in certain parts of the Province and the sporadic outbreaks of equally appalling sectarian acts?
Mr. Mandelson:
My hon. Friend is right to point out that recently, and even now, nationalists--members of Northern Ireland's minority community--are suffering disgusting and unwarranted attacks in appalling incidents, many of which, I am glad to say, have been forestalled by the intervention of the Royal Ulster Constabulary and the security forces. I am glad to put on record my acknowledgement of, and thanks for, what the RUC has done in recent weeks to stop the pipe bombers and others who have been intercepted on their way to carrying out the most despicable and unforgivable attacks.
I believe that the de Chastelain commission will take its responsibilities very seriously in relation to all the paramilitaries. It will adopt an active role, and I am confident that it will do what is necessary to achieve what we all want to see--that is, full decommissioning by all the paramilitaries by May 2000, as set out in the Good Friday agreement. We have already lost some time; there is now an opportunity for the paramilitaries to pick up speed and make further progress so that they will have achieved their targets by the end date set out in the Good Friday agreement.
Mr. Robert McCartney (North Down):
I am sure that the Secretary of State will forgive me if, in the best traditions of this House, I introduce a note of discord to his orchestrated harmony. In July this year, when the first seismic shift was in progress, the right hon. Gentleman's predecessor, now the Minister for the Cabinet Office, indicated that a draft treaty was available in the Library. It consisted of a letter addressed by the right hon. Lady to the Foreign Minister of the Republic, introducing a failsafe treaty dealing with the points so ably raised by the right hon. Member for Strangford (Mr. Taylor).
Is there, in this second seismic shift, a similar failsafe treaty that will ensure that in the event of Sinn Fein/IRA defaulting on their bargain, a treaty will be available setting aside the institutions? The Secretary of State will be aware that those institutions--the north-south implementation bodies and the north-south ministerial councils--are the subject of treaties, not between the parties but between the sovereign Governments--hence the necessity for the failsafe treaty. Is a similar treaty available in this case?
Secondly, is the Secretary of State aware of any institution of government claiming to be democratic that would include the political representatives of a terrorist organisation still in possession of its arms and still dedicated to the destruction of the state?
Mr. Mandelson:
In answer to the hon. and learned Gentleman's specific question about the treaty, it was not pursued because the plan fell. However, similar understandings with the Irish Government exist, as I think that I have made clear during the course of my responses this afternoon.
The hon. and learned Gentleman said that he had to introduce a note of discord to our proceedings. Quite honestly, I would not have expected anything different from him. I regret to say that he has contributed not a jot to the negotiations or to the progress of the review. I note that he attempts to take no share either of the credit or the responsibility for what has been achieved.
I have not spoken about seismic shifts, either today or on any other occasion. I am interested only in what we can achieve at the end of the full implementation of every aspect of the Good Friday agreement, which is the seismic shift that the people of Northern Ireland want. If and when we achieve that, as I confidently believe we will, I hope that the hon. and learned Gentleman will be the first to cheer, and to say "I was wrong".
Sir Brian Mawhinney (North-West Cambridgeshire):
Does the Secretary of State accept that everyone involved in making this significant political progress is to be commended? Does he recognise that the bedrock on which that progress has been founded are the fortitude, courage and common sense of the vast majority of the people of Northern Ireland over 30 bloody years? Does he accept that their fortitude and courage ultimately resisted the men of violence, slowly but inexorably strengthening the hands of the democrats so that they can now take the risks that they are justifiably taking?
Bearing in mind that, in terms that the Secretary of State will understand, the good reputation of the many has been tarnished by the actions of the few for 30 years, will he take this opportunity to pay tribute to the people of Northern Ireland--whatever their religious background or political persuasion--who have stood firm and made today possible, and who, we hope, will make tomorrow possible?
Mr. Mandelson:
The right hon. Gentleman's sentiments will be shared by most if not all hon. Members. We would not have achieved what we have, and I would not be standing here to announce it, without the majority of the people of Northern Ireland having asserted their values, their good will, their principles and what they believe. They have struggled through so much to achieve
Dr. Nick Palmer (Broxtowe):
One of the great advantages of the peace process is that it appears to be marginalising the extreme groups that still seek change through violence rather than politics. Everyone from the Ulster Unionists to Sinn Fein is being given a common interest in defeating those groups. However, every stage of the process in Northern Ireland, as in similar processes elsewhere, has been punctuated by attempts at disruption through terrorist acts by violent groups. Will my right hon. Friend state that any attempt to disrupt the process through violence by fringe splinter groups--successful or defeated--will fail, because we are committed to completing the process and gaining a long-term peace agreement for Northern Ireland?
Mr. Mandelson:
I assure my hon. Friend that that will be the case. The security forces will not lower their guard, and the people of Northern Ireland will not tolerate any distortion by a continued resort to violence of what they have achieved or the progress that we are making. I am in constant touch with the Chief Constable, the General Officer Commanding, NI, and other members of the security forces. They maintain their guard and their responsibility, and while I remain Secretary of State, that guard will not be dropped.
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